Newbury Park's top three 3200 runners have run 8:40, 8:44 and 9:05 - Is that a record?

Already happening. The Young family and the Sahlman family both live outside of the Newbury Park boundary. Hailey Golmon is a transfer, Aaron Cantu came from outside the boundary and Matthew Siroky moved to the area from NV.

Probably doesn’t hurt that Newbury is a really good school and the home school of the Youngs and Shalmans is pretty crappy.

Parents will find the best situation for their kids and make it happen.

It is genetics. Good schools get rich, smart, fast kids. They have better gene pools. Kids move there and transfer.

Folsom HS in our area, has an an absolute powerhouse of a football team and can blow out any other team in the section in most years. Two brothers, one of whom was good enough to get a full ride at Clemson, moved from Reno into an apartment in Folsom just to become eligible.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Coaches cannot train a 10:00 runner to run 9:00. All they can do is to be good at motivating the kids who ran fast times in P.E. at the feeder middle schools.

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I am betting pretty much every coach who has had a sub 9 guy, has trained a 10min guy to run 9:00. Very few kids run sub 10 in their first race.:) If you are a 4:30/10:00 guy running 30 mpw for 4 months of the year (see guys like Brian Sell), then a coach getting you to run 70mpw for 12 months of the year is going to turn you into a close to 9:00 guy. Some people will not respond and some will be super responders.

dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Coaches cannot train a 10:00 runner to run 9:00. All they can do is to be good at motivating the kids who ran fast times in P.E. at the feeder middle schools.

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I am betting pretty much every coach who has had a sub 9 guy, has trained a 10min guy to run 9:00. Very few kids run sub 10 in their first race.:) If you are a 4:30/10:00 guy running 30 mpw for 4 months of the year (see guys like Brian Sell), then a coach getting you to run 70mpw for 12 months of the year is going to turn you into a close to 9:00 guy. Some people will not respond and some will be super responders.

Super interesting debate. What about guys like Jager who ran 30s mpw and 8:47/4:05 double and FL All-American as a Junior?

I think talent really stratifies most of these guys. No one is training their way in front of Jager very long without Olympian talent.

Does every 1500-student district have more than 1 sub-9 talent? I think no, except it is close. 9:20 I would agree. Maybe a little lower.

Sub 9 guys were running 9:20 as sophomores. Talent always beats training.

dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Coaches cannot train a 10:00 runner to run 9:00. All they can do is to be good at motivating the kids who ran fast times in P.E. at the feeder middle schools.

.

I am betting pretty much every coach who has had a sub 9 guy, has trained a 10min guy to run 9:00. Very few kids run sub 10 in their first race.:) If you are a 4:30/10:00 guy running 30 mpw for 4 months of the year (see guys like Brian Sell), then a coach getting you to run 70mpw for 12 months of the year is going to turn you into a close to 9:00 guy. Some people will not respond and some will be super responders.

When I say 10-minute guy, I mean someone with 10-minute talent. Guys that can run 9:00 are blessed with strength and good top-end speed and 90% of the time, it doesn't matter what HS they attend. German Fernandez would have accomplished the same things at most of the HSs in the Sac area.

Brofessor wrote:

Super interesting debate. What about guys like Jager who ran 30s mpw and 8:47/4:05 double and FL All-American as a Junior?

I think talent really stratifies most of these guys. No one is training their way in front of Jager very long without Olympian talent.

Does every 1500-student district have more than 1 sub-9 talent? I think no, except it is close. 9:20 I would agree. Maybe a little lower.

Last time I checked, a lot of people beat Jager in XC his senior year. I doubt more than 1 or 2 had olympian talent. And yes we are reading a lot into 1 bad day:) Some guys run incredibly well off low mileage. But again take Jager and if he does 70mpw, is he running 3:55/8:30? That is a question that can never be answered. Jager is a .001% talent guy and I might be leaving off a zero. We are talking more like the .5% talent level people. Still rare but there are a couple hundred times more of them.

In the end we will never really be able to put exact numbers on it as you will never get a large enough pool of kids to train hard for 4 years to find out if the average is 8:50, 9:05 (low 9s), or 9:30. But I am pretty confident that it is well sub 10:00.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:

I am betting pretty much every coach who has had a sub 9 guy, has trained a 10min guy to run 9:00. Very few kids run sub 10 in their first race.:) If you are a 4:30/10:00 guy running 30 mpw for 4 months of the year (see guys like Brian Sell), then a coach getting you to run 70mpw for 12 months of the year is going to turn you into a close to 9:00 guy. Some people will not respond and some will be super responders.

When I say 10-minute guy, I mean someone with 10-minute talent. Guys that can run 9:00 are blessed with strength and good top-end speed and 90% of the time, it doesn't matter what HS they attend. German Fernandez would have accomplished the same things at most of the HSs in the Sac area.

When I say a 10 min guy, I mean a guy that has run 10 mins. I. have no way of figuring out what the imaginary times a person would have run if they maxed out their potential. And it should be pointed out that we are talking about 1% talent level here. We aren't talking about average people.

dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

When I say 10-minute guy, I mean someone with 10-minute talent. Guys that can run 9:00 are blessed with strength and good top-end speed and 90% of the time, it doesn't matter what HS they attend. German Fernandez would have accomplished the same things at most of the HSs in the Sac area.

When I say a 10 min guy, I mean a guy that has run 10 mins. I. have no way of figuring out what the imaginary times a person would have run if they maxed out their potential. And it should be pointed out that we are talking about 1% talent level here. We aren't talking about average people.

I knew a lot of guys who trained at least reasonably hard for four years, that ran about 10:00. The guy that hops off the soccor field and runs 10:00 in his first race, is not a 10:00 guy.

I ran with a couple of guys at SDSU that were sub-9:00 in HS. They were more talented than me and it had nothing to do with coaching.

Nicholas Goldstein ran 4:41 for 1600 in 8th grade. Colin Sahlman ran 4:48 for 1600 and 55 for 400 in 8th grade. I have no idea if they were training hard back then, but that is talent. I’m sure they are training hard now, but they are starting with a very strong base of talent.

How is the Newbury Park coach able to continue coaching during a no contact period? I don't think he is even allowed to be there cheering for the kids.

Northport has had 3 guys break 9 in the same race but our number 2 guy was no wear near 8:44

Since the CIF championships are cancelled all schools are in summertime rules right now according to CIF's press release in early April. This means the HS kids can run for a club, summer style training, etc. Not to mention all seniors in 12th grade right now are done with their CIF eligibility since the season got cancelled. They are not under any CIF rules that stop them for doing a time trail , an unattached race. or having their own private coach. (SOUTHERN SECTION UPDATE – 4/8/2020). They technically can be coached by who and when they want.

The only thing stoping them would be if this was their registered CIF dead period. Since most southern sections school are still in session I would guess Mira Costa and Newbury Park are still in school.

A junior also ran. You are saying that California kids can be coached year round by their HS coach if they pay him while out of season? That is prohibited in most states. Most states are currently under orders for coaches to have no contact with athletes. I didn't realize that CA was so much more lenient.

Watching practice wrote:

A junior also ran. You are saying that California kids can be coached year round by their HS coach if they pay him while out of season? That is prohibited in most states. Most states are currently under orders for coaches to have no contact with athletes. I didn't realize that CA was so much more lenient.

Yes summer time rules start the day after school ends for Freshman , sophomore and Juniors. In this case ( the Covid-19 situation) they started summertime rules as of April 4th per CIF ruling. In California (Southern Section) Summertime rules allows you to be coached and workout with kids off season like during the summer. You can do this though the school or you can start your own club or summer training camp. The only tricky thing about doing it though a camp is insurance and having your own business. Im sure most top schools run their summer training though a private club or business to make thing easier on themselves.

Another way around things are in New York you can't have summer practice unless it's though a club. That is why most all HS in NY have "Club summer practice"

It might have been more like '78. That was the year Chapa ran 28 and change for the 10,000 m which is still the scholastic record. I though LaSalle Academy in RI had similar depth more recently

There was a DIII school near Chicago called North Central College who had many athletes running strong D I times. The coach claimed he could take people who never run sub 10 and eventually turn them into sub 9 by the end of their collegiate careers so hard work and mileage may make it possible