Ran 62.4 on my 400m time trial this morning. Quite disappointed as I was aiming at 59 or lower. Ran in lane 1 in Pegasus Turbo so I guess that's not ideal. Probably paced quite poorly as I was indeed dying at 200-250m. I finished in what felt like 5K pace lol.
I may try again in 2-3 weeks, otherwise the next TT will be a 800m. I guess 2:19 would be the aim having the 4:59 mile in mind?
Other main workout this week was 6x800 with a 400m jog
2:48 average (2:41 - 2:45 - 2:46 - 2:54 - 2:51 - 2:53)
Yeah, so I did that 400m time trial 2 weeks ago, timed it at 62.4
I indeed collapsed at 180m as I probably started too fast. Finished at what felt like 5K pace ha. Ran this alone in lane 1 in Pegasus Turbos... not sure if that changes anything.
Updating this thread with the latest workouts over the past 3 weeks. Still following 2 workouts per week + a long run (12 to 15 miles). Averaging about 45MPW
200m repeats
- 15x200 (Avg 34" Rest = 80s 200m jog)
- 15x200 (Avg 34" Rest = 90s 200m jog)
400m repeats
- 8x400 : Average 74s &105s standing rest (75 - 73 - 73 - 74 - 74 - 73 - 73 - 74)
800m repeats
- 6x800 Average 2:48 & Rest = 2:30 400m jog (2:41 2:45 2:46 2:54 2:51 2:53)
- 6x800 Average 2:44 & Rest = 2:45 400m jog (2:45 2:47 2:45 2:45 2:45 2:36)
Tempo
- 6K tempo : 6:34 per mile average
- TODAY : 6K tempo : 5:59 per mile average. Very happy with that one... Last kilometer was done in 3:24 (5:28 mile pace). The last 5k of this tempo run is actually my 2nd best 5K time ever (18:24).
Planning on keeping with this training, basically doing each one of those workouts every 2 weeks.
- Will start reducing rest on 400m (to 90s first and then to 60s) and 800m (about 2:10 for the 400m jog)
- Will run another 400m time trial maybe to see if I can run 59s, otherwise will time trial 800m and 1K in August. Goals being sub2:20 and sub3:00
If you try to improve your 400 you should really do some shorter, faster speed work.
This helps with your 800 / mile, too.
Do 6 × 100 with long recovery (4 min+) in 13.5 s, or 4-5 x 200 in 27-28 s. You struggle with 13.5 / 27? Then a sub 60 400 m be difficult. However, one more reason to introduce short sprints. Even a couple of 30-50 m at top speed should be done ocassionally, e.g. included in warmup for some 200 or 400 m intervals.
Forget about 15 mile long runs and 6 mile tempo runs. You have plenty of endurance for at least 400 / 800 / 1600 in sub 60, 2:10 and 4:45. You need more power and speed in your legs, definitely.
I think you are very close. I think the advice about doing the very fast 100s is not terrible either. But maybe you could just empty the tank on your last couple of 200s on your 15x200 day and get a similar result. FULL REST if you do this.
nice work on the improving tempos! Last year, I did a very similar workout setup to what you are doing now (200, 400s, 800s, tempo every 2 weeks) and I found my 5k times to improve more than ever before--even on much lower mileage.
Cheers, will try to add some faster repeats instead of some long runs. Pretty sure I can run sub 28s on 200m but not sure what my time would exactly be.
800m time trial today : ran 2:20:0
Not sure if that is good sign or not after my 62 400m?
Again I didn't pace very well, first lap was about 67-68 and second lap 73 or 72.
Next up is the 1K time trial
Bittertown wrote:
800m time trial today : ran 2:20:0
Not sure if that is good sign or not after my 62 400m?
Again I didn't pace very well, first lap was about 67-68 and second lap 73 or 72.
Next up is the 1K time trial
Based on your tempos and this time trial I would say you are getting quite close to sub 5. Think you will be able to do it in a few weeks actually.
Bittertown wrote:
I'm M 30yo 5'10 and 165lbs - running for about 3 years.
Ran 2:59 at Chicago 6 months ago.
Trying to run 4:59 for the mile in the next 5 months (will be a time trial, hopefully on a track if it's open)
Every of those 3 running years is very similar : average 50 to 60 MPW during the summer half the year, and 10 to 30 MPW for the other half, focusing on the gym and gaining 25 pounds every winter (losing them during the running part).
I evaluate that I would have ran the mile around 5:15 or maybe even 5:10 last year when I was in marathon shape (pure guess but felt I was faster than in 2018 where I ran a mile time trial in 5:19). Was following Pfitz 18/70 during this last marathon training.
We're pretty much exactly the same age, height, weight, mileage and running history (you were a couple minutes faster at Chicago last year). I'm currently in the bulking up phase of the year but I've also been toying with the idea of focusing on shorter distances later this year so this thread is very instructive. Appreciate the updates.
J.D. wrote:
Bittertown wrote:
I'm M 30yo 5'10 and 165lbs - running for about 3 years.
Ran 2:59 at Chicago 6 months ago.
Trying to run 4:59 for the mile in the next 5 months (will be a time trial, hopefully on a track if it's open)
Every of those 3 running years is very similar : average 50 to 60 MPW during the summer half the year, and 10 to 30 MPW for the other half, focusing on the gym and gaining 25 pounds every winter (losing them during the running part).
I evaluate that I would have ran the mile around 5:15 or maybe even 5:10 last year when I was in marathon shape (pure guess but felt I was faster than in 2018 where I ran a mile time trial in 5:19). Was following Pfitz 18/70 during this last marathon training.
We're pretty much exactly the same age, height, weight, mileage and running history (you were a couple minutes faster at Chicago last year). I'm currently in the bulking up phase of the year but I've also been toying with the idea of focusing on shorter distances later this year so this thread is very instructive. Appreciate the updates.
Agreed - I'm a bit older (M34) and ran NYC in 2019 in a 2:53 and have the same goals - that said, my morning 8x400s were all 77-80s - I can't come close to how the OP is repping.
runnerchef wrote:
J.D. wrote:
We're pretty much exactly the same age, height, weight, mileage and running history (you were a couple minutes faster at Chicago last year). I'm currently in the bulking up phase of the year but I've also been toying with the idea of focusing on shorter distances later this year so this thread is very instructive. Appreciate the updates.
Agreed - I'm a bit older (M34) and ran NYC in 2019 in a 2:53 and have the same goals - that said, my morning 8x400s were all 77-80s - I can't come close to how the OP is repping.
im working my way to this territory as well. I'm 38. similar speed to op. But my endurance is not up to par with you guys.
I can average 32s on 8x200 with 60s, 75/76 on 8x400 with 75 seconds. And then my 800s drop to something like 2:52/2:53. Low 19s 5k. Low 3:20s marathon.
Good thread. Thanks for the updates.
high school xc coach wrote:
I can average 32s on 8x200 with 60s, 75/76 on 8x400 with 75 seconds. And then my 800s drop to something like 2:52/2:53. Low 19s 5k. Low 3:20s marathon.
Good thread. Thanks for the updates.
Can I ask an extremely stupid question - how on your watch do you monitor the 75 seconds break? Like do you hit "pause" and there is a timer or do you just keep it going and stop and rest? I typically do 200m run / walk inbetween reps and ends up being 80-90s break, but was wondering.
Great to see similar profiles and goals! Feel free to use this thread to post your main workouts, time trials etc too! My workout paces might be a bit faster but I've also been taking quite a lot of rest (1:45 for 400 and 2:45 for 800m)
runnerchef wrote:
Can I ask an extremely stupid question - how on your watch do you monitor the 75 seconds break? Like do you hit "pause" and there is a timer or do you just keep it going and stop and rest? I typically do 200m run / walk inbetween reps and ends up being 80-90s break, but was wondering.
That's exactly why I've been taking slightly longer rest times for my intervals as I keep the time on my watch going... 1:45 standing rest on 400s means I start every 3minutes, and 2:15 jog rest on my 800s means I start every 5:00 minutes for instance.
runnerchef wrote:
high school xc coach wrote:
I can average 32s on 8x200 with 60s, 75/76 on 8x400 with 75 seconds. And then my 800s drop to something like 2:52/2:53. Low 19s 5k. Low 3:20s marathon.
Good thread. Thanks for the updates.
Can I ask an extremely stupid question - how on your watch do you monitor the 75 seconds break? Like do you hit "pause" and there is a timer or do you just keep it going and stop and rest? I typically do 200m run / walk in between reps and ends up being 80-90s break, but was wondering.
i don't keep track. i have a set area for walking break that just ends up being that. afterwards, i check garmin connect for moving time vs total time and average out the break. I have used a separate stopwatch to monitor breaks in the past, but it's really not worth the trouble.
runnerchef wrote:
high school xc coach wrote:
I can average 32s on 8x200 with 60s, 75/76 on 8x400 with 75 seconds. And then my 800s drop to something like 2:52/2:53. Low 19s 5k. Low 3:20s marathon.
Good thread. Thanks for the updates.
Can I ask an extremely stupid question - how on your watch do you monitor the 75 seconds break? Like do you hit "pause" and there is a timer or do you just keep it going and stop and rest? I typically do 200m run / walk in between reps and ends up being 80-90s break, but was wondering.
i don't keep track. i have a set area for walking break that just ends up being that. afterwards, i check garmin connect for moving time vs total time and average out the break. I have used a separate stopwatch to monitor breaks in the past, but it's really not worth the trouble.
runnerchef wrote:
Can I ask an extremely stupid question - how on your watch do you monitor the 75 seconds break? Like do you hit "pause" and there is a timer or do you just keep it going and stop and rest? I typically do 200m run / walk inbetween reps and ends up being 80-90s break, but was wondering.
You can definitely create a bespoke interval workout (including rest) on a Garmin before heading out on a run, but that's always seemed like far too much effort for me. I usually just try and estimate the rest as best as possible and figure that it will all average out in the end.
Tried another 800m time trial today : 2:18.6
Quite happy with it. Was much warmer today (95F) than for my 2:20, but also no wind compared to the 10-15mph last week.
Aiming for Sub3 on a 1K time trial before the end of August, and then the mile in September.
Bittertown wrote:
Tried another 800m time trial today : 2:18.6
Quite happy with it. Was much warmer today (95F) than for my 2:20, but also no wind compared to the 10-15mph last week.
Aiming for Sub3 on a 1K time trial before the end of August, and then the mile in September.
Just read entire thread. Congratulations on all your accomplishments and progress. I think you’re missing two crucial components, strides and drills.
1. 3 x 100m strides @ 200-400m pace at the end of two easy runs. Walk back shuffle recovery. Add 1 per week until you reach 6.
2. Drills before intervals.
https://www.kinetic-revolution.com/dathan-ritzenhein-running-drills-dynamic-flexibility/Iowa800 wrote:
Bittertown wrote:
Tried another 800m time trial today : 2:18.6
Quite happy with it. Was much warmer today (95F) than for my 2:20, but also no wind compared to the 10-15mph last week.
Aiming for Sub3 on a 1K time trial before the end of August, and then the mile in September.
Just read entire thread. Congratulations on all your accomplishments and progress. I think you’re missing two crucial components, strides and drills.
1. 3 x 100m strides @ 200-400m pace at the end of two easy runs. Walk back shuffle recovery. Add 1 per week until you reach 6.
2. Drills before intervals.
Many thanks for your input
I've actually been doing strides once or twice per week after my easy days - I stopped that recently though as I started to get some slight knee and achille pain. Will definitely do them again once I feel good about my legs. Although when I was doing them it was probably more like 6x100m at 800 or so pace.
Very good points about drills, I haven't looked into that enough. I'm doing some random butt kicks and knee raises before my workouts/time trials but nothing very serious. I'll look into it!
Many thanks for your input
I've actually been doing strides once or twice per week after my easy days - I stopped that recently though as I started to get some slight knee and achille pain. Will definitely do them again once I feel good about my legs. Although when I was doing them it was probably more like 6x100m at 800 or so pace.
Very good points about drills, I haven't looked into that enough. I'm doing some random butt kicks and knee raises before my workouts/time trials but nothing very serious. I'll look into it!
Can you trace the pains back to the strides or increased training load?
A. Going from 0-6 is real quick too.
B. Might be form. Also do strides on the track, turf, or grass if possible. Don't strain, think light, quick, and easy.
C. You might be doing too many TTs at max or near max effort.
Iowa800 wrote:
Can you trace the pains back to the strides or increased training load?
A. Going from 0-6 is real quick too.
B. Might be form. Also do strides on the track, turf, or grass if possible. Don't strain, think light, quick, and easy.
C. You might be doing too many TTs at max or near max effort.
To be honest pain is a strong word, they are more tightness and soreness than anything. I'm being quite cautious about it.
Hard to know but I imagine more because of the increased load/intensity than the strides themselves. Never ran that many 200s and 400s. And as mentioned in the first post I run very little in the winter (like 10-15 MPW). I decided to cut the strides off for a few weeks because I felt it was more important to keep the intervals and tempos, and to get real rest/easy days.
6 might be a lot indeed but I wasn't running them as hard as you suggest so I didn't think it would be too much
Definitely correct on the bad form, I run probably all those short distances on the track with bad form... I could try running them on a soccer field indeed!