In my opinion, the field of medicine has a very high rate of occupational incompetence.

Donuts are free wrote:

There is a shockingly high percentage of doctors who are scandalously bad at their jobs.

Glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this. I suffered a first degree burn on the back of my head that resulted in hyperpigmentation (I had to formulate this diagnosis) and when I went to three separate doctors to get it looked at once I realized the burn/coloring wasn't going away, they all told me it was a birth mark. It was absolutely insane to me that they tossed out all the contextual information I gave them to arrive at the easiest/laziest conclusion. Even when I told them it wasn't there at birth and that I've been shaving my hear for years with no such mark having been there before, they all just stared at me blankly.

My story only regards a trivial cosmetic dermatological issue, I can only imagine the deadly consequences that result in more serious situations with try hard, no talent hacks comprising such a large percentage of the medical field.

Donuts are free wrote:

There is a shockingly high percentage of doctors who are scandalously bad at their jobs.

I’d bet the percentage is lower than average. I also think that most people are kinda dumb and generally not really that great at their jobs. Doctors screwing up just has a bigger impact on people in a direct, personal way. It also goes back to the saying about what you call the guy who finished last in his medical school class.

You are absolutely correct. People pathetically place all their trust in doctors just like they do with the media and government in covid19 situation. I used to go to doctor walk in clinics regularly just to mess around and see what the doctors were really all about. Turns out they BS a lot and people will believe them because the patients mostly do not know anything themselves. All a doctor has to do is act confident and feed the patient a bunch of BS. Kind of like the guy we have as president.

I have mixed feelings about them. I'm having an operation soon, and the surgeon forgot basically half of why I was getting the surgery between visits. Had I not reminded him of what happened in our first meeting, which he admitted to taking notes on, I'm not sure that the procedure would have even been worth it. I've had another procedure in the past go against its intention.

What's much worse is the incompetence of the non-MDs who are practicing medicine. Where I live, if you go to an urgent care clinic and you don't appear to have a condition that is immediately life-threatening, you will normally been seen not by an MD but by a nurse or physician's assistant or some such thing. These people tend to know nothing, and give crazy diagnoses (gout for an injured toe, antibiotics that are ineffective against the bug you have). Even most physicians' offices shunt most patients to one of their non-doctors, who tend to be the kind of people who barely passed my general chemistry course with a C.

Donuts are free wrote:

There is a shockingly high percentage of doctors who are scandalously bad at their jobs.

Good thing we have a biggly President who is doing his own treatment studies.

Donuts are free wrote:

There is a shockingly high percentage of doctors who are scandalously bad at their jobs.

Doctor is the job that gets the most money and to some people, the most prestige and respect for anyone who isn't some kind of savant within their field. Its going to attract people who care more about these things than medicine. Rigorous training doctors receive insures any doctor you visit has at least an acceptable level of expertise, except for the few unlucky patients who stumble upon the rare bad doctor.

But this rigorous training may not prepare doctors to think outside the box. They get used to dealing with the gen pop - 70% overweight with 36% obese.

Remember, a big muscular build isn't healthy for a man, a lean muscular build is. Anyways, this basically means when a doctor encounters a really fit individual, the doctor may not know how to properly treat him. The fit individual wants actual treatment, not just a pill to make some pain stop and be told to rice.

Bands a make hoes dance wrote:

You are absolutely correct. People pathetically place all their trust in doctors just like they do with the media and government in covid19 situation. I used to go to doctor walk in clinics regularly just to mess around and see what the doctors were really all about. Turns out they BS a lot and people will believe them because the patients mostly do not know anything themselves. All a doctor has to do is act confident and feed the patient a bunch of BS. Kind of like the guy we have as president.

I've seen it more often that the doctor acts confident and offers little to nothing. "Here is a prescription for painkillers, go rice, we'll try to actually diagnose your injury if it gets so debilitating you can't walk."

Iatrogenic deaths were estimated to be the third leading cause of death in 2013. That does not even account for iatrogenic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430763/

pointer outer wrote:

Iatrogenic deaths were estimated to be the third leading cause of death in 2013. That does not even account for iatrogenic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430763/

Is that higher or lower than it would be if there were no doctors? If doctors had much less training? We can say doctors are so incompetent - but what would the solution be - more training for doctors when they're already in school so long?

You know, I am an MD and I agree with a lot of the points in this thread. I take a lot of satisfaction in performing Independent Medical Exams, for which I am asked to comment on the practice of other physicians. The work I see (and documentation) is frequently not at standard of care.

If you have the $ to pay for concierge medicine, you get much better treatment. You can haggle with docs that work outside of the insurance system. I have negotiated imaging studies and labs for myself at a good rate outside of insurance.

You are certainly right. I could give my whole sphiel on how I came to the same conclusion but don’t need to. Most doctors are not worth trusting or going to. It’s best to live as healthy as possible so they can’t be given an opportunity to screw you up regarding both health and finances.

Here is an example of a competent doctor:

https://www.wcvb.com/article/dover-massachusetts-man-charged-with-wifes-murder-norfolk-district-attorney-says/32546591

As someone who works as a "physican extender" I often hear complaints about doctors. I feel that problems occur when the desires of the patient and the expertise of the doctor don't align. If you don't want drugs, surgery, or traditional care for your problem, you don't belong in a doctor's office any more than a diner who's looking for lasagna belongs in a taqueria.

For the next magic trick the OP will declare the US also has the best medical system in the world.

On one hand doctors are horrible because we should instead listen to some unqualified blogger or YouTuber. If universal healthcare comes up suddenly we have the best system in the world.

It’s a festivus miracle.

Doctors are humans too and not robots, lately our profession has been under siege by insurance and administrators that wanna squeeze every penny out of us even after a long days work.

Its a complex subject and I dont want to bore you why docs increasingly dont care about being right or educated because in the end the cat with the most cash (insurance companies) will tell you how to practice. Whats written in the chart is what matters and most of the time its what we spend the most time on.

I have seen incompetence and arrogance first hand from providers and patients so what you say is totally true. I will also add that socially a lot of doctors lack basic decorum, including nurses. However hear me out. Some patients REFUSE to do the basics. High blood pressure, stop the salt. Overweight, go exercise HARD. Diabetes, stop drinking sodas. Coronary artery disease, stop the steak and smoking.

Medicine is an extremely challenging field now and requires more mind power than ever before. Some of my mentors graduated residency in the 60s and in those times there were only 3-4 antibiotics and preventative medicine was in its infancy. Now there are easily over 30 antibiotics and a vast amount of other medications. A few want medicine like the old days because it was easy and payed ridiculous amounts of money for what nowadays is considered SUBPAR patient care.

I apologize for docs who are arrogant and narrow minded, but its a tough world out there. Take excellent care of yourself before you end up in some wackos office.

pointer outer wrote:

Iatrogenic deaths were estimated to be the third leading cause of death in 2013. That does not even account for iatrogenic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430763/

And everyone is putting their faith & trust in the development of a vaccine in record speed to save humanity from extinction. ?

Donuts are free wrote:

There is a shockingly high percentage of doctors who are scandalously bad at their jobs.

Glad you noted that it is a opinion...because your opinion is final.

Kvothe wrote:

pointer outer wrote:

Iatrogenic deaths were estimated to be the third leading cause of death in 2013. That does not even account for iatrogenic disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK430763/

Is that higher or lower than it would be if there were no doctors? If doctors had much less training? We can say doctors are so incompetent - but what would the solution be - more training for doctors when they're already in school so long?

If there were no doctors there would be no medical errors!