Here is another one. Division 2. Got rid of men and women xc.
https://www.rollinssports.com/sports/mxc/2019-20/releases/20200515hepy2y
Here is another one. Division 2. Got rid of men and women xc.
https://www.rollinssports.com/sports/mxc/2019-20/releases/20200515hepy2y
I agree with your last paragraph. Well up until you said they are not doing anything to kill the program. Is that where the bar is set? How about what are they doing to promote their program?
At anything below the Power 5 level, they better be doing promotion and making their program visible and important to the right people or don't cry when the rug is yanked. It is not important like football in their eyes, although all of us in the sport know it actually is. That has to be ingrained in the right people.
Hard? Not enough time? You know it. But that is the job in this day and age and if a coach doesn't like it then get out of the way to make room for someone who can and will do it.
I coached at a mid major university in their first year moving from DII to DI several years ago. I did all these things and was gaining some traction but burnt out from it all. I got a local wealthy guy to donate a million for a track facility, got students to meets, had large teams.....but like you indicated it gets old fast and there is little room for a 'normal' type life. When I applied for a better situation the university president took credit for the donation and told my prospective employer I had nothing to do with it. So, even if you hustle it might not work.
I also agree that you are asked to do more and more, but that is what it is. The soccer coach doesn't have to coach both genders etc. because it is not soccer that will be cut in most situations.
I understand and agree but someone asked what a coach could do proactively and I threw some stuff out; some good and some very difficult.
Many years ago Sam Bell (Indiana) stood up in front of all the D1 coaches at the National Meeting and suggested track and field NOT give out athletic scholarships to stay competitive and alive. He wanted to do as the Ivy League did, need based scholarships. His vision was that this would level the playing field in track and field and enable more programs to grow and prosper. I don't remember coaches laughing, but no one was applauding.
Seems to me that for most programs, this would be a way to survive, grow and prosper. D3 is not cutting programs and neither are the Ivy schools. If AD's look at what larger track and field teams can bring in via tuition/government grants, diversity and academic success, then track and field at the college level would be much more viable and valuable.
Avoid signing with mid-majors with football. Highschoolers need to do their research on which programs are likely to cut their track/xc teams and avoid.
That's the point I'm trying to make. Doing the job of coaching has simply become not enough in the eyes of many. "If you want to survive..." Well gosh dang, wouldn't it be nice to not have to do the job of a coach, equipment manager, SID, marketer, fundraiser, groundskeeper, and whatever else you can think of. My heart goes out to some of my close friends who are stretching themselves to the point of tearing for no material reward. Waking up every day fighting to survive is no kind of life. That was my last coaching position and it almost broke me. People on letsrun (not talking about you specifically) love to push the "coaches are lazy" narrative but in my experiene it's the high drive to work that gets us in the end.
BTW, I'm not disagreeing with you at all, we seem to have a very similar mindset to all of this. I don't know the coaches at Akron but I am familiar with some at CMU. Great people that grind it out. I know four others that have lost jobs (the programs themselves still exists for now). Again, great coaches doing much of what you suggested already. The only way to become truly indispensable is to become financially independent from the athletic department. If you're a coach that can pull that off, well, you might be squandering your talent working in athletics.
Best of luck to those preparing to fight for their program. I've done that battle once before. Never again.
I know I keep saying "well, that's what it has become - deal with it," and I'm sticking to it. You understand what I am saying.
I also understand exactly what you are saying. All that stuff we have mentioned is not what coaches signed up for. Those coming into the profession better recognize it or they either won't last long.
Although as budgets shrink I see a little less of it, but when things were going well a few years ago I saw mid-major coaches traveling all over the country with 1:56 men and 5:12 women. You can run those times at home or at the nearest school. Now I am not suggesting an AD knows the difference but the coaches have to show development of athletes or some financial restraint also.
Again, you make great points and I agree with you that what it takes to succeed and protect a mid-major program is far from what it was, what most coaches think it is, it is only getting worse.
Former CMU football player here and casual jogger. A few things.
As a former player, it I find it sad to see this happen to men's track. Couldn't have happened to a better group of guys. So, let's talk about our major money suck....
Our football program goes into complete shambles on a rotating basis. We'll bring a good coach in, rebuild the program and win a bunch of games, he'll leave then we bring in a new coach who sets the program back another five years. We had a particularly terrible stint in the late 90's and early 00's with two poor coaches back to back. Much like all MAC football programs, it's tough to win consistently because of the transient nature of the personnel who lead our teams. We never get a steady revenue stream because of the inconsistency of our program.
So now we have this:
https://cmuchippewas.com/sports/2019/9/16/chippewa-champions-center.aspx?id=1335
, a multimillion dollar facility which will anchor our north endzone. Granted all this was planned before Covid-19, but I have to question the decision (plus many others) to go this big being that....
1. We could have scaled this facility back even further, and in fact they did when it was actually $7m
over budget initially.
2. Enrollment is down. Incoming HS students are finding they can get a similar education at other in state schools for cheaper.
3. Our football attendence is dwindling and hasn't been great in more than a decade.
4. MACtion - ESPN weekday games in November with almost zero attendence do nothing for our recruiting. It's tough enough to find guys who are fringe Big 10 material but much better than D2 material who want to play football in a cold, windy place like Mt. Pleasant. Guys want to be play on the big stage and the MACtion format does little to improve our program accept to generate revenue. What happens if MACtion goes away?
Covid-19 took the wind out of college sports but there have been a lot of decisions made at CMU and in the MAC conference that haven't made much sense...and I'm sad to see the fallout.
CMU-Football,
I'd like you thoughts on CMU dropping down to D2 and potentially being competitive at that level and reducing the Athletic budget. Of course 20 football scholarships would be cut but other sports would be saved.
#CMUClassOf1991
1600m506pr:-/ wrote:
CMU-Football,
I'd like you thoughts on CMU dropping down to D2 and potentially being competitive at that level and reducing the Athletic budget. Of course 20 football scholarships would be cut but other sports would be saved.
#CMUClassOf1991
That will be one empty stadium. Twenty something years ago they made a major expansion to the football stadium to push it over the 30K mark. Prior to this decision, the November games were barely over 12K in attendence, and when you are in middle of a bad season, you are lucky to break 10K.
D2 attendence throughout the country is even worse, and we couldn't pull enough revenue if Wayne State visited us on a Saturday. Compare that to a Saturday WMU or EMU or a good Toledo / Bowling Green game and you see the benefits or having bigger fanbases when it comes to visiting teams.
When MSU arrived and played us at home, we broke an attendence record. The community (restaurants, hotels) couldn't even keep up.
If things aren't bad enough as it is, moving us to D2, losing scholarships, losing a fan base (believe me, this is a thing because people are proud of the D1 status), losing good talent on the field, losing the MACtion contract would be hole CMU athletics would never be able to get out off.
No tears shed for Rollins (I live near the campus).
Men's team 1-5 spread at conference (8k) 30:00-46:40
Women's 1-5 (6k) was 27:48-30:50.
Did they even try to be competitive?
2. That is not the biggest problem but you surely hit the nail on the head with that one. Why would. HS students go there and pay more money, for what?
My son went out of state and got a full ride, so why pay thousands that you'll never see a return on...that's just fiscally dumb.
The former football player is spot on and that's why enrollment is down.
Colleges are charging way too much for undergrad, absolutely ridiculous on too many levels to explain...and I'm well aware what professors make;)
oh boy...oh boy wrote:
Colleges are charging way too much for undergrad, absolutely ridiculous on too many levels to explain...and I'm well aware what professors make;)
Yet college bound students routinely take out loans to pay the cost, start their post-college lives in huge debt, and pay prestigious university costs for teaching and other broad degrees.
If the trend was community college for two years, branch campuses, and other more affordable options the sticker price might come down through competition.
Yeah, that's my point. Don't be a college bound student that routinely does that and is in debt. Taking loans for Grad School is one thing, for undergrad when there are many other options available, doesn't make sense.
This is a great point. The money donated to these programs by alumni goes to travel/salaries/equipment and not scholarships. Creates a different dynamic.
Some smaller D-1's that aren't super attractive academically are using roster spots to get more full pays. There was a great analysis a couple years ago regarding the cutting of the Eastern Michigan swim program and whether it actually saved the school money. At borderline schools you need full pays.
Furman just cut lacrosse and baseball, two sports with big rosters and not tons of scholarships. They are betting that those student-athletes will ultimately be replaced by a student that doesn't want Division 1 athletics. Probably a reasonable bet at Furman.