(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 5/17/20

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

pewow wrote:

Probably just not used to hurting that bad. At least it's over quick (in real time, feels like forever).

It's in line with his 68s 400m speed. It's actually quite amazing that he can hold 81% of his 400m speed in a 10k TT, that's world class! Incredibly well developed endurance. I can probably only hold that % of 400m speed for a mile, at best.

Haha, if only that 10K was legit! It was mostly downhill. There were only 2 small uphills and the rest was quite the drop. The 400 and 800 were both on a track with about 10 mph wind. I had no head wind in the 10K either.

And no doubt about the hurting. I couldn't bring myself to REALLY hurt like I could in high school. But in high school, I had people to keep pace with, my dad in the stands, girls to impress, etc. This was all solo.

Hey rucker!

I don't have a coach. I pay very close attention to what people are doing here and try to learn from you guys. I don't really follow the Stryd zones too closely as I run almost entirely by feel. I do love the Stryd data to see how evenly it thinks I ran. I will sometimes check it when going up hills or if I feel my breathing seems like its getting a bit labored (it always seems to agree with how I feel). Interestingly enough, when I plug the 5K and 10K race into Palladino's Super Power Calculator race predictor it predicted the "power" output to within 1% of actual (Stryd factors in the hills - think grade adjusted pace). I can see how it could be a very powerful pacing tool in a race that isn't perfectly flat, I just haven't done that yet.

To add to this, I don't advocate running slow if it feels mechanically awkward either. I train a lot my heart rate (optical, but I have great success with my watch's accuracy). I aim for a heart rate between 140 - 150 on my easy days, 155 as the absolute max at the very end of a run. For me that translates to 70 - ~78 percent of my HR max. So if you run somewhere in that realm, I think you would be fine on your easy days because it is a more quantitative metric of "easy" since the pace will vary from day to day

Hey :)

Thanks for your advice. Really useful. I find it hard not to compare myself to the other girls - like you say, I get dropped and on Strava, they all run so fast. Be interesting to see whether my (improved, based on the feedback I get here) approach is successful..

Before the 5x5 min bashing continues, I should add it was probably designed more as a 10K pace workout - my 43:20 was on a course with 400 ft elevation gain overall, so my 5 x 5 min was meant to be @ 6:53 min/mile. However each rep was consistently faster with the final rep at 6:33 min/mile and it felt okay. Probably should have reigned it in a little in hindsight...

My 5K was set during this marathon cycle during my usual training week (just hopped in a Saturday morning race), and my 5:57 is a more recent indicator of fitness (2 weeks ago, solo, not on a track).

Take your point completely about jogging between reps - I'm terrible for this!!

brakz wrote:

Take your point completely about jogging between reps - I'm terrible for this!!

FWIW, I've noted that those who like to walk or stand their recoveries generally do not perform as well at the 5K and 10K as they do at the mile.

I'm not sure how much of that is

a) the different training effects of walking/standing/jogging the recovery,

b) those who are physiologically better at middle distances also feel more physically comfortable walking the recovery, and/or

c) those who grew up running sprints and middle distances are both more mentally comfortable racing shorter distances and more mentally comfortable with walking/standing the recovery.

Ladies and gentlemen, would you race a 10k in the Next%s or the LT 4s?

I absolutely love both shoes but I want to nail this TT and I'm not sure which is better...

Only got the Next%s a few weeks ago but they are a blast and I've had some great long runs in them.

I wear the LT 4s a lot and am probably more obsessed with them than any other shoe. Every time I put them on I can't help but smile cause they are so freakin light!!

Thoughts?

Next %, no questions about it!

Appreciate the response!!

[That's what I'm leaning towards...:) ]

Next%. My legs might break off after 10k in the streaks.

Next%s for me. I've worn them for road miles and loved them. They are much more versatile than the original vaporfly

We have a winner! I will wear the Next%s!

They are quite an amazing pair of shoes. I've never experienced that level of energy return before and I actually don't think they feel that awkward at slower paces (for example when you're doing the off section of 1' on/ 1' off, or when you're warming up)

And then when you pick up the pace, damn they just feel superb...!

Interested to see if the Alphaflys feel any different! Definitely not going to get those until October at the earliest though....

Also thank you for all the responses, you guys are awesome!

This thread is LRC at its very best.

Ran a hilly HM In streaks in October. Pretty sure that was the straw that broke RRRs back (literally).

Hope all have a good memorial weekend..

I ran a HM TT in them about 6 weeks ago. Didn't get injured but definitely started to feel the lack of cushioning towards the end!

Probably should save them for the 5k and speed work as others have recommended.

I think 10k is the max distance for the LTs. I did 10k progression in them starting at like 6:20 and working down to 5:40 and the last 2 miles started to be uncomfortable.

But I also think it depends how fast you are running. I could see myself running a 35 minute 10k in a race and not having issues. However, someone running an hour 10k may have more problems.

One day late time trial report. My bad peeps

Male, 29, 166 lbs

Went down to my local university track to time trial out a 5000 because why not?

Did a 2 mile warm up and some drills. Popped some Run Gum, put on my spikes, and walked down to the 200m mark. Aiming for a sub 21, the closer to sub 20 the better.

Laps 0.5 - 3: This feels ok. I'm on about 20 flat pace. Starting to breathe a little hard, but race efforts are supposed to hurt and I don't run a 5000 that often, so I'm a bit green. So far it doesn't feel harder than a tempo or Deek's quarters. This shouldn't be too bad.

Laps 4 - 5: Ok, this is getting harder a lot faster than I anticipated. But maybe I'll settle into a groove and this sucky patch will pass. That 5000 two summers ago or whenever wasn't so bad once I found a rhythm. I passed through 1600 in about 6:45. Doing well so far.

Laps 6 - 8: Holy Christ, this is awful. These splits are definitely getting slower. I came through 3000 in roughly 13:08. That's well over 21 flat pace. I can't close 2000 in sub 7. This is absolutely not going well. What the hell is going on? And why the f*ck does my back hurt so bad? My posture isn't that terrible!

Laps 9 - 11: Just finish. Just finish. Just finish. I've passed through two miles in 14 something. This sucks, but I'm closer to finishing than not. This isn't going to be a stellar time, but finishing is better than quitting. I can at least not hate myself over quitting early. Gods, treadmill running really isn't the same as road running. But then how the hell did Austin Brogan become such a badass? Maybe I need to work on my form? Maybe strength and strides? Maybe not be so fat?

Laps 12 - 13: Ok, just 800 left. Now 700. Now 600. Time to make a decent push to finish strong. Maybe I can still salvage a 22 flat, or maybe just below. 400 to go. Just push. Just push. Just push. It hurts, but you're almost done. 200. Use whatever you have left. You have less than like 40 seconds of running. Any pain is going to be short lived. And done, finally. 22:09. Goddamn it. But at least I finished. Now I can drown myself in beer and cake.

So, the time trial itself went terribly. I have a list of reasons about why I underperformed, but it doesn't matter since I didn't execute like I thought I would. At least now I have a proper gauge for my fitness in terms of paces, more or less. I'll probably retry another 5000 in three weeks, maybe a 1500 or mile in a week or two.

Watch splits: 00:48.0 01:41.0 01:40.9 01:43.4 01:45.9 01:48.0 01:50.3 01:50.2 01:51.4 01:53.1 01:53.3 01:47.9 01:35.5

Recalculated splits with 200m at the end: 01:38.6 01:41.0 01:42.1 01:44.7 01:47.0 01:49.2 01:50.3 01:50.8 01:52.3 01:53.2 01:50.6 01:41.7 00:47.7

1600 - 3200 - 4800 - 5000: 06:46.4 07:17.2 07:17.8 00:47.7

Also, I have garbage form. Instead of looking having good kickback and good knee drive, my legs looked like As from the pictures my wife took. Definitely need to do some form drills because by the gods I look terrible.