Emily Sisson says that the Atlanta course wasn't suited for her. What an odd excuse.

She's just repeating what her coach told her.

Link or she didn't say it

How lame, you can either run or you can't, no excuses.

With that mindset you are already defeated, move on Emily, your time is done.

no excuses ever wrote:

Emily Sisson says that the Atlanta course wasn't suited for her. What a weird excuse! She just wasn't that good on that day! I doubt Kipchoge or Linden would ever make such odd excuse. When you are good, you are good.

Linden? She only runs courses that are suited to her hilly and technical. I bet she never runs Berlin or Chicago or London again in her life. Only Boston and NY because those are the courses that suit her.

Get serious, people. There's nothing at all unusual about what she said and it holds true for a lot of" top" marathoners. At this point, you can have an entire career of marathoning on essentially pancake flat courses (Chicago, London, Berlin, etc) and not have to race on anything like the Atlanta course until these inevitable Trials come around.

Jeljo wrote:

She's just repeating what her coach told her.

I meant to bring this up on our podcast after the Trials but forgot. I can understand why Ray Treacy would want his athletes to drop out of the marathon if they weren't going to make the team but I was shocked he told them that before the race. It seems like you are "giving them an out" and subtly telling them a) it's ok if they dno't make the team or b) you don't really think they are going to make the team. As good as they are, they should 100% be believing they'd make the team.

I think the world of Ray as a coach but was surprised that he told them that before hand.

Maybe he knew deep down the course was a disaster for her but one can easily wonder if his advice to her of "Hey drop out if you aren't top 3" before the race negatively impacted her.

So if she's a rhythm runner, will she ever try NYC or Boston down the road?

sausage link? wrote:

Link or she didn't say it

Here is the link.

It's only her second marathon I'm not sure that she can definitively say that about herself. She ran well at NYC Half a few years back, it's not the marathon course hilly but it's not a flat course by any means.

no excuses ever wrote:

Emily Sisson says that the Atlanta course wasn't suited for her. What a weird excuse! She just wasn't that good on that day! I doubt Kipchoge or Linden would ever make such odd excuse. When you are good, you are good.

So says a little boy whose excuse is "I have no talent".

no excuses ever wrote:

Emily Sisson says that the Atlanta course wasn't suited for her. What a weird excuse! She just wasn't that good on that day! I doubt Kipchoge or Linden would ever make such odd excuse. When you are good, you are good.

It's not an odd excuse at all, it makes perfect sense. Some people are "rythym runners." On a flat course, she may have smoked everyone. Maybe she's really a better choice for the team, since the Olympic venue was changed to a flatter course... although, for some reason, the trials stayed with a simulation of the previous course's conditions. Also, did you know that some athletes deal with heat better than others? Or cool? Did you know that Jim Ryun wasn't suited for Mexico City, but Kip Keino was?

Igloi Pop wrote:

no excuses ever wrote:

Emily Sisson says that the Atlanta course wasn't suited for her. What a weird excuse! She just wasn't that good on that day! I doubt Kipchoge or Linden would ever make such odd excuse. When you are good, you are good.

It's not an odd excuse at all, it makes perfect sense. Some people are "rythym runners." On a flat course, she may have smoked everyone. Maybe she's really a better choice for the team, since the Olympic venue was changed to a flatter course... although, for some reason, the trials stayed with a simulation of the previous course's conditions. Also, did you know that some athletes deal with heat better than others? Or cool? Did you know that Jim Ryun wasn't suited for Mexico City, but Kip Keino was?

It seems obvious that if you make a marathon course flat or excessively hilly it’s going to provide an advantage to certain runners. USATF and ATL Track club tried to mimic the Tokyo course with everyone the US Trials course but the Olympic course changes I’m the end. Now we’ll be sending our Hill Team to compete in a flat marathon. Oh well

I was drinking when I wrote this forgive me if it goes astray.

Is this an attempt for her to justify a bad performance? Absolutely. Does it sound like an excuse? Yes it does. Is she wrong? Well no, not at all.

She is also absolutely right. Different runners, different cyclist, different athletes have different strengths and weaknesses. In cycling, is Peter Sagan right when he says he cant climb like Alaphillipe and that a stage or course that plays to a different rider's strengths isn't suited for him? Yes, he is.

Same said for track, cross, road. Some runners do better on muddy hilly xc courses, some want a flat fast hard as a rock course. Same is true for road running.

It's not that hard to understand different athletes have different backgrounds and strengths and genetics that make better or worse at different types of racing.

*** Yes, I know there are anomalies who are good at it all.

Do any of you actually understand racing wrote:

Is this an attempt for her to justify a bad performance? Absolutely. Does it sound like an excuse? Yes it does. Is she wrong? Well no, not at all.

What is the line between an excuse and an explanation? I don't think anyone who has run XC and track thinks everyone performs the same on both surfaces. People that have run Boston or CIS know that certain people can run the downhills without destroying their legs while it makes others struggle. And so on.

But there isn't much she can say that doesn't sound like an excuse. You either give a bland answer "I didn't have it" or you try and explain ("Training went well but I struggle with hills which made it a tough course for me"). And if you try and explain, it is almost impossible not to come across as making excuses.

Igloi Pop wrote:

no excuses ever wrote:

Emily Sisson says that the Atlanta course wasn't suited for her. What a weird excuse! She just wasn't that good on that day! I doubt Kipchoge or Linden would ever make such odd excuse. When you are good, you are good.

It's not an odd excuse at all, it makes perfect sense. Some people are "rythym runners." On a flat course, she may have smoked everyone. Maybe she's really a better choice for the team, since the Olympic venue was changed to a flatter course... although, for some reason, the trials stayed with a simulation of the previous course's conditions. Also, did you know that some athletes deal with heat better than others? Or cool? Did you know that Jim Ryun wasn't suited for Mexico City, but Kip Keino was?

+1

Spot on, Iggy

That's the point I was trying to make. Justifying/explaining a bad race will sound like an excuse even if it is just an explanation and that doesn't mean it's invalid or wrong, but people will often find a way to criticize someone. I was just saying that something being an excuse can also be valid and truthful at the same time.

I'm sure there were several people with fast PRs and good racing records who realized as soon as they saw the Atlanta Trials course that they had no chance of being Olympians. This is not new. I had a conversation with an American Olympian in 2004 who said that knowing what she knew of the Athens course, she realized Paula Radcliffe was not going to be a factor in the race. I obviously raced at a much lower level than these women, but I was the ultimate "rhythm runner." And I had one teammate who never beat me on the track and never lost to me on the roads. This is the reality of running.

Let's just say it like it is - her coach really messed up her training and preparation for the Olympic Trials. Instead of him admitting his own mistakes, he blames it on Emily. A classless move by Ray Treacy.

You know the course more than a year in advance. Train for the demands of that course. Hit more hills in your preparation. If she wasn't ready for it, the blame is on Ray Treacy.

She should change coaches.

Everyone knew what the course was. It’s hilly and awkward. If you wanted to be top three you better train for hilly and awkward.

Rupp is a rhythm runner and he showed up prepared and won.

The trials were a test of who could show up on a given day and have an amazing performance. The olympics are really a test of who can perform under pressure on one single day. In that way the trials were fair.

Also:

I don’t like the idea of rhythm runners anyways. Running is a test of cardio and leg fatigue. Just adjust your training to hilly courses. So many runners are obsessed with pace in training and prioritize flat runs cause pace is a better metric. A fast flat runner can become good at hills. They just need to run hilly tempos and learn to slow down uphill to not spike lactate too much. It’s not rocket science.

If the course you are peaking for is flat, we’ll run flat workouts. If hilly, run hilly workouts. Simple