This does literally nothing but put people's lives in danger.
If we're not willing to help we shouldn't be stoking the flames.
it's true that if the UK had surrendered in1940 fewer brits would have died in WW2.
Adult has a point here.
We're propping them up with money and weapons while still paying Russia for energy to fund the war. This is the first proxy war in history where both sides are funded by the same people...
I don't understand your objection. Are you against encouraging and strengthening democracy?
I'm against what's happening in Ukraine.
This does literally nothing but put people's lives in danger.
If we're not willing to help we shouldn't be stoking the flames.
Everybody except Russia is against what's happening in Ukraine.
How does encouraging and strengthening democracy put people's lives in danger? Are you saying we should just give in and let authoritarians take over everywhere?
it's true that if the UK had surrendered in1940 fewer brits would have died in WW2.
Adult has a point here.
We're propping them up with money and weapons while still paying Russia for energy to fund the war. This is the first proxy war in history where both sides are funded by the same people...
not exactly what you are saying, but interesting historical fact is that in 1941 the USSR was still supplying materials to the German army even as German troops were crossing the border heading for Moscow in Operation Barbarossa.
it's true that if the UK had surrendered in1940 fewer brits would have died in WW2.
Adult has a point here.
We're propping them up with money and weapons while still paying Russia for energy to fund the war. This is the first proxy war in history where both sides are funded by the same people...
I'm with you there. All nations need to stop buying Russian fossil fuels as soon as possible.
And this is exactly what is happening. Right this minute, all of Europe is about to vote for a ban on Russian coal. Some are also banning Russian oil. And some, like Lithuania, have already banned Russian gas as well.
It will take a little time for everyone to come on board with a total ban on all Russian fossil fuels, but I believe it will happen if the war goes on much longer.
We're propping them up with money and weapons while still paying Russia for energy to fund the war. This is the first proxy war in history where both sides are funded by the same people...
not exactly what you are saying, but interesting historical fact is that in 1941 the USSR was still supplying materials to the German army even as German troops were crossing the border heading for Moscow in Operation Barbarossa.
war is messy and weird.
I'll go even further, which draws the near-parallel even clearer:
there is no way Germany could have had success in its invasion of the USSR...without two years of raw materials from the USSR fueling the Nazi armed forces.
Similarly, there is no way Russia could have invaded Ukraine in 2022 without the West buying Russian energy.
cross-border trade is usually a great idea, building ties between nations. but it doesn't always prevent hostilities. Which we should keep in mind when dealing with China.
This does literally nothing but put people's lives in danger.
If we're not willing to help we shouldn't be stoking the flames.
Everybody except Russia is against what's happening in Ukraine.
How does encouraging and strengthening democracy put people's lives in danger? Are you saying we should just give in and let authoritarians take over everywhere?
If we aren't willing to bleed for them. Yes.
Ukraine isn't winning. Without physical intervention they will either be stuck in a permanent state of war which destroys Ukraine or they will just suffer greatly and then lose in the end anyway.
This resolution just gives Russia the greenlight to invade Moldava and Georgia when they're done with Ukraine. We've made it clear that Ukraine isn't worth 1 drop of American blood. What purpose to jabbing another stick in Russia's eye serve?
It would be great if the entire world was composed of democracies. China and Russia don't like the idea. If we're going to directly interfere with their neighbors there will be consequences and if we aren't willing to fight we're just encouraging people to die for no reason.
We did the same thing with the shiites in Iraq during the Gulf War. We told them we were coming and to rise up against Saddam. So they did and then we left and they all got slaughtered.
Saying things you won't back up because it feels good and right gets people killed.
We're propping them up with money and weapons while still paying Russia for energy to fund the war. This is the first proxy war in history where both sides are funded by the same people...
not exactly what you are saying, but interesting historical fact is that in 1941 the USSR was still supplying materials to the German army even as German troops were crossing the border heading for Moscow in Operation Barbarossa.
war is messy and weird.
They were allies... They invaded Poland together.
Bolsheviks and Nazis hated each other. Both sides knew war was inevitable Russia just didn't think it would start so soon.
Everybody except Russia is against what's happening in Ukraine.
How does encouraging and strengthening democracy put people's lives in danger? Are you saying we should just give in and let authoritarians take over everywhere?
If we aren't willing to bleed for them. Yes.
Ukraine isn't winning. Without physical intervention they will either be stuck in a permanent state of war which destroys Ukraine or they will just suffer greatly and then lose in the end anyway.
This resolution just gives Russia the greenlight to invade Moldava and Georgia when they're done with Ukraine. We've made it clear that Ukraine isn't worth 1 drop of American blood. What purpose to jabbing another stick in Russia's eye serve?
It would be great if the entire world was composed of democracies. China and Russia don't like the idea. If we're going to directly interfere with their neighbors there will be consequences and if we aren't willing to fight we're just encouraging people to die for no reason.
We did the same thing with the shiites in Iraq during the Gulf War. We told them we were coming and to rise up against Saddam. So they did and then we left and they all got slaughtered.
Saying things you won't back up because it feels good and right gets people killed.
were you alive during the cold war? do you remember all those proxy wars? the ones that kept ww3 and the end of civilization from happening?
it's a serious question. were you alive in the 1960-1990 period? Do you know about cold war diplomacy and how it worked?
It often seems you are a college freshman who doesn't know any history at all and just applies libertarian theory to everything.
We're propping them up with money and weapons while still paying Russia for energy to fund the war. This is the first proxy war in history where both sides are funded by the same people...
I'm with you there. All nations need to stop buying Russian fossil fuels as soon as possible.
And this is exactly what is happening. Right this minute, all of Europe is about to vote for a ban on Russian coal. Some are also banning Russian oil. And some, like Lithuania, have already banned Russian gas as well.
It will take a little time for everyone to come on board with a total ban on all Russian fossil fuels, but I believe it will happen if the war goes on much longer.
Russia will be willing to suffer much much longer than the west will.
Things are going to get very bad already with the food shortage coming and inflation running out of control.
If you think gas prices are high now wait until you see what happens if Europe stops buying Russian oil.
To this day Russia is on the Human Rights council at the UN and as a charter member even if every country on earth votes to kick them out of the UN they can just veto the vote.
NATO is a paper tiger that's unwilling to fight. The UN is absolutely useless.
Russia can kill every man woman and child in Ukraine and NATO and the UN won't do anything but complain and send weapons. Ukraine will eventually run out of warm bodies to use the west's weapons.
not exactly what you are saying, but interesting historical fact is that in 1941 the USSR was still supplying materials to the German army even as German troops were crossing the border heading for Moscow in Operation Barbarossa.
war is messy and weird.
They were allies... They invaded Poland together.
Bolsheviks and Nazis hated each other. Both sides knew war was inevitable Russia just didn't think it would start so soon.
the USSR *thought* they were allies with the nazis, sure. stalin was so convinced of that that he could not believe germany was invading when it happened. stalin trusted hitler so much.
but then lend-lease happened and that kept the ussr in the game until we could open a western front and weaken germany.
hey! it's the US supporting an ally in a proxy war (USSR v Germany) before the US was in the war! Just like now! what do you think about that, adult? a bad idea for the US to send millions of tons of stuff to the USSR in 1941? We shouldn't have done that if we weren't willing to spill our own blood?
I'm with you there. All nations need to stop buying Russian fossil fuels as soon as possible.
And this is exactly what is happening. Right this minute, all of Europe is about to vote for a ban on Russian coal. Some are also banning Russian oil. And some, like Lithuania, have already banned Russian gas as well.
It will take a little time for everyone to come on board with a total ban on all Russian fossil fuels, but I believe it will happen if the war goes on much longer.
NATO is a paper tiger that's unwilling to fight.
as you and Putin know very well...NATO is a defensive alliance not meant to have serious offensive capabilities. And it can only defend its own member nations. UKR is not one of those.
if a NATO nation is invaded, NATO will fight very hard.
Ukraine isn't winning. Without physical intervention they will either be stuck in a permanent state of war which destroys Ukraine or they will just suffer greatly and then lose in the end anyway.
This resolution just gives Russia the greenlight to invade Moldava and Georgia when they're done with Ukraine. We've made it clear that Ukraine isn't worth 1 drop of American blood. What purpose to jabbing another stick in Russia's eye serve?
It would be great if the entire world was composed of democracies. China and Russia don't like the idea. If we're going to directly interfere with their neighbors there will be consequences and if we aren't willing to fight we're just encouraging people to die for no reason.
We did the same thing with the shiites in Iraq during the Gulf War. We told them we were coming and to rise up against Saddam. So they did and then we left and they all got slaughtered.
Saying things you won't back up because it feels good and right gets people killed.
were you alive during the cold war? do you remember all those proxy wars? the ones that kept ww3 and the end of civilization from happening?
it's a serious question. were you alive in the 1960-1990 period? Do you know about cold war diplomacy and how it worked?
It often seems you are a college freshman who doesn't know any history at all and just applies libertarian theory to everything.
Which one of those proxy wars worked out well for the people in the country the war was fought in?
North Korea is still a hell hole.
Millions died in Vietnam to stop the spread of communism so Vietnam could end up communist anyway.
We created Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan in the 80s.
Proxy wars do not work. They make the people who sell weapons and politicians rich. For everyone else they are a terrible idea.
were you alive during the cold war? do you remember all those proxy wars? the ones that kept ww3 and the end of civilization from happening?
it's a serious question. were you alive in the 1960-1990 period? Do you know about cold war diplomacy and how it worked?
It often seems you are a college freshman who doesn't know any history at all and just applies libertarian theory to everything.
Which one of those proxy wars worked out well for the people in the country the war was fought in?
North Korea is still a hell hole.
Millions died in Vietnam to stop the spread of communism so Vietnam could end up communist anyway.
We created Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan in the 80s.
Proxy wars do not work. They make the people who sell weapons and politicians rich. For everyone else they are a terrible idea.
the point is that proxy wars work to keep nuclear war/total war from happening.
that's what's happening in UKR. It is a proxy war that, we should all hope, keep Russia and NATO/USA from fighting directly. because that kind of a direct war would kill millions and could end human civilization.
at the same time, this proxy war, which is destroying the RU military and economy, should teach the next would-be aggressor nation not to do it again.
You seem to think there is no value in this setup. Weird.
This could all end up a huge success for global peace if UKR can hold on and the sanctions work. Could secure a new global pax period.
Bolsheviks and Nazis hated each other. Both sides knew war was inevitable Russia just didn't think it would start so soon.
the USSR *thought* they were allies with the nazis, sure. stalin was so convinced of that that he could not believe germany was invading when it happened. stalin trusted hitler so much.
but then lend-lease happened and that kept the ussr in the game until we could open a western front and weaken germany.
hey! it's the US supporting an ally in a proxy war (USSR v Germany) before the US was in the war! Just like now! what do you think about that, adult? a bad idea for the US to send millions of tons of stuff to the USSR in 1941? We shouldn't have done that if we weren't willing to spill our own blood?
They were literally allies... They invaded Poland together and stopped shooting when they met in the middle.
Lend-lease helped the Soviets but they would have been fine without it. It just would have taken longer. Germany lost because of terrible planning not American blankets and trucks.
You don't seem to know what a proxy war even is... WW2 has absolutely nothing in common with the current situation in Ukraine.
Which one of those proxy wars worked out well for the people in the country the war was fought in?
North Korea is still a hell hole.
Millions died in Vietnam to stop the spread of communism so Vietnam could end up communist anyway.
We created Osama Bin Laden, the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan in the 80s.
Proxy wars do not work. They make the people who sell weapons and politicians rich. For everyone else they are a terrible idea.
the point is that proxy wars work to keep nuclear war/total war from happening.
that's what's happening in UKR. It is a proxy war that, we should all hope, keep Russia and NATO/USA from fighting directly. because that kind of a direct war would kill millions and could end human civilization.
at the same time, this proxy war, which is destroying the RU military and economy, should teach the next would-be aggressor nation not to do it again.
You seem to think there is no value in this setup. Weird.
This could all end up a huge success for global peace if UKR can hold on and the sanctions work. Could secure a new global pax period.
So we're going to watch Ukraine get obliterated to avoid a nuclear war that no one was threatening?
Putin's SOLE complaint in the world has been NATO encroachment. So the solution to avoiding war with Russia is to do the one thing he says he won't tolerate? That's insane.
The Russian economy is probably going to end up better off than our economy when all is said and done. The ruble has already recovered. If Europe quits buying energy China and India and other countries will just buy it instead.
There is no value in this "setup". We created the condition for this war ON PURPOSE and have no plan to get out of it.
In no universe is restarting the cold war and driving Russia and China closer together a "huge success for global peace".
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.