Talkin' HEPS

not a lake fan yet wrote:

Brown was good in track before Craig got there. She is still reaping the fruits of others. The winners in the 60m, 60mH, 200m, 400m, Mile and the TJ yesterday were all gifts left behind. Their men's program is on a rapid decline. They went from being a real track team to nothing fairly quickly.

Uhh, when was Brown good? I think they won Heps one year but all in all they were always pretty bad, barring a few random good runners (Tarpy, Gaudette, O'Keefe).

Okay, my bad, the Heps are not this coming weekend. They're on the weekend after.

Also, thanks to Harvard, Dartmouth, Princeton, et al., for already updating with marks from this past weekend. I hope everybody else will do so soon--I heard about some League-leading performances from the Cornell guys...

Okay, the performance list *was* (mostly) updated. I just had a look at it again, and going into this weekend's action I have to adjust my predictions a little.

Based on the marks listed, the Cornell men probably have to be favored now. Princeton has a few "holes" that CU, by coincidence, covers pretty well.

But I'd still rate the Red only slight favorites. I'm very sure we haven't seen all of PU's firepower. According to the list, they haven't even run a 4x4 yet!--and a lot of their distance crew seem to be under wraps. Also, I don't think motivation will be a problem for the Tiger distance men, who were understandably disappointed in their indoor showing.

[Doping the 10,000 is almost impossible, as usual, because the Ivy race will most likely be the first of the season for a majority of the field. I really don't think that Cornell has seven of the top ten 10,000m men in the League!]

On the women's side, Cornell is looking a little better. They're certainly strong (and deep) in some events, but not across the board. Princeton (especially) and Brown still look like they're right there--I'd include Penn, but they seem on course for a relatively low score in the field events.

The women's field includes a bunch of multiple-event stars. The winning team could be the one whose aces perform up to potential in all their events.

I don't look for major changes in my predictions, based on this weekend's action. A lot of folks are going to be training through, or resting, or doing secondary events (racing underdistance, etc.), so I don't look for much change on the list. It doesn't help that the weather conditions are fairly poor...

Any developments to report? Anybody looking really ready?

Ah, I envy those who'll be at the meet. The weather.gov site is saying rain in New Haven through Friday, but Saturday should be sunny--cooler and a chance of showers on Sunday. I do hope the weather cooperates, but I know it'll be a great meet, regardless. Best of luck to all.

does anyone know where i can find a schedule of events? isn't there a blog or something?

pretty decent site for updates and history.

What's the latest on Ben True? He looked okay on the DMR but a bit slow on the 4 x 800 at Penn Relays.

Will True and LBP battle in the 1500? Too bad Maag is hurt. Is Nightingale only running 5000?

The meet is underway! The usual great coverage is being provided by

http://therelays.blogspot.com/

--thanks, guys. Decent conditions (some sun, 60's) but a fair amount of wind, which will likely affect all the lap races.

GO BIG RED!

I'll let you all follow the blog, but Princeton men lead after the first few events. I have the feeling this is going to be one of those good-to-the-last-drop meets--it could come down to the last couple events.

Just noticed that Seabrook is trying for a *tough* double, the flat and hurdles 400's. Had the fastest qualifier in the first, second-fastest in the second.

It *is* a do-able double--I've coached a guy who took second in a good conference on the flat, then won the IH--but it is not easy.

Meanwhile, the men's 10,000 is going to be a major event. Cornell didn't score as well as it might have hoped in today's field events, and didn't get everybody through to tomorrow's finals (unlike the indoor meet, where all but one guy advanced), while Princeton has been racking up some good points. Last year's 10,000 really changed the whole complexion of the meet--interesting to see what happens between PU and CU in this one.

By the way, this isn't looking like a dual meet. Lots of different schools are scoring points, especially on the women's side.

Seabrook did that double last year, along with the 4 X 1 and the 4 X 4. And he got second in the 400 I think and won the 4 hurdles so nothing new this year. incredibly tough double however. CU somehow pulled off 1-2 in the 10k. Guess for Canaday you don't need a fast 5k to win the heps 10k as his pr is only 14:35.

Congrats to CU on a great first day.

Anyone know what princeton's plan was having that kid go out so hard in the 10k? He's run pretty fast, is he not doubling or something?

In_Ithaca wrote:

Anyone know what princeton's plan was having that kid go out so hard in the 10k? He's run pretty fast, is he not doubling or something?

I'm wondering whether he was trying to get the Regional standard. Is it really *28:45* (which is what's listed)? That can't be right, can it? Wouldn't they mean 29:45?

Anyway, maybe he was actually after the 29:30 provisional time for Nationals. I could see that. (You don't have to run 10,000 in Regionals to run it in Nationals, correct?)

Anyway, it's all perplexing to me. If it wasn't very windy, he shouldn't have been killed by a 4:34 first mile--that's a slower pace than the 13:55 he's listed as having run for 5,000...

Whatever, that race turned out to be major for Cornell, just like last year's.

It looked like Tinney was just trying to steal the race. The crawling early pace last year didn't work out well for him and he doesn't seem to like a slow pace in general. It was a little windy at the start but it died down some during the race. Tinney's first lap was a 65 while a pack of about 6-7 came through in 70 and the rest of the field in 72-74. Then Tinney ran about 68-69 for a couple of laps and the next group ran 72-ish and fell farther behind. The chase pack's 4th lap was a 78 (maybe they gave up on Tinney for the time being?), which let the other pack catch up momentarily, then Canaday from Cornell took over the group with 71s and 72s through 5k. Tinney had been running 72 or so from laps 4-8, but he suddenly started running 75 or over and the chasers caught him just after 5k and Randall from Dartmouth made a move immediately. Tinney had nothing to respond with and he faded back into the pack from there on. Maybe he hates running in a pack at a modest pace and figured trying to get a big lead was his best plan, but with almost 20 seconds over the rest of the field in terms of 5k prs, it sure seems like he could wait until the last mile or so to hammer it. Running 28:30 pace all alone for the first mile seems like the strategy most likely to lose this race for him. Which it did.

And with Day One in the books, I'd say that on the men's side the meet is now Cornell's to lose. If they perform as they're capable (that "if" is always a big one--that's why we have the meets), they oughta be okay. They should get a raft of points in the hurdles/HJ/TJ/400 tomorrow, and be competitive in most of the other events.

Obviously, their finishing the first day in the lead (50-48) takes some of the Day Two pressure off. The 10,000 was once again huge, and (for me) unexpectedly so. Princeton could very plausibly have finished that race with a 10+ point lead in the team scoring.

And what a good day for Yale (currently fourth with 24 points, behind Dartmouth's 26)! They had some who did expectedly well, and others who really rose to the occasion. A *lot* of Yale guys got through the heats, including some top seeds, and they have some field folks who should score well tomorrow. I'd say an easy third place for the Elis. Good job.

In_Ithaca wrote:

Anyone know what princeton's plan was having that kid go out so hard in the 10k? He's run pretty fast, is he not doubling or something?

The plan was for him to go out in 4:40 pace, but his first 2 laps were low 60s, and he was 80-100m ahead by that point. For the next couple miles he and the chase pack ran the same pace, but just before halfway they began to reel him in (more from him slowing than them speeding up) and when they began to pass him there was no response. After the race his coach was not too happy.

Women, after Day One:

Princeton (60 points) with a solid lead over Cornell (37), Harvard (32), and Dartmouth (29). However, Princeton did not get a ton of people through to finals in the track events and is not a lock. I'd say to look for them to double (or even triple?) back the three women who scored 22 points in the 10,000--with the 3,000 and SC *and* 5,000 on Sunday, there are a lot of distance points to be had. (And, of course, PU has more distancewomen in the wings.)

Harvard continues to show real progress and should score in multiple event areas on Sunday. But watch out for Brown (fifth after Day One, 15 points) and especially Columbia (seventh, 6 points) to move up in the standings, based on the people they have competing on Day Two. Places are not at all settled on the women's side, and scores should seesaw all day!

I got a few emails and I want to clarify that I wasn't being critical of tinney. I had my share of dumb Heps races... like going out in 2:30 for the half in a 1500m. I assumed that the coach planned for him to go that fast. I guess that wasnt the case. Best of luck to everyone today, though i'm obv biased, go big red!