Training in racing flats?

bump

There are plenty of primitive peoples/hunter gatherers who would cover 15-20 miles a day in either barefeet or moccasins. The Hopi Indians running to and from their cornfields. The Tarahumara kickball players. The Masai, Matabele and Zulu warriors of Africa. The Bushmen of the Kalahari. The Aborigines of Australia. The Iroquois Nation messengers. You think they didn't cover 15-20 miles a day? Sure it wasn't concrete but feet do work for what they were made for. You might want to try hunting and gathering enough food to live on and see how far you cover in a day.

Bump this back up just for shits and giggles...

Shorter used them at the NCAA X-C championships in his college days. NO lie...read about it in Sports Illustrated.

nobody wrote:

I have been doing all of my running in the proton for 2 months and will NEVER go back to a "running" shoe.

Hey nobody, how much do they weigh?

Your link doesn't work by the way. If you search the Teva website for "Proton" you'll see the only links they have now are for the Proton II.

I just now realized this was a very old thread resurrected recently. Wasn't paying attention. Hell, I see I've even posted on it before.

Never mind.

Has of you overpronators successfully moved from trainers with orthotics to racing flats? I am super-light (5'8", 113lbs), but my right foot points out and I overpronate particularly on the right (so because of this structural issue, not just because I have weak feet). Now I am doing a majority of my training in beefy orthotics and Spacers (a weird combo, I know).

Would this be a foolish change at this point? If not, any advice? Thanks.

Why do you guys wear shoes? I actually wear racing flats most of the time,with a couple of days barefoot(on a golf course). It has helped me run more mileage. I also run most of the time on soft surfaces. Both soft surfaces and barefoot/racing flats are the real key to success.

Hey, does anyone know where I can find a new pair of either Nike Air Triax TC's or Ghost Racers?

ive been running in my asics gel DS racer V for about a month now and im definitely switching to flats for training. i think i need to move on to more of a minimalist flat, im thinking the nike waffle racer or XC version. it seems like its minimal yet has a good bottom.what do you think? my training will be roads and trails but hopefully more trails in flagstaff arizona.

epberlin wrote:

Has of you overpronators successfully moved from trainers with orthotics to racing flats? I am super-light (5'8", 113lbs), but my right foot points out and I overpronate particularly on the right (so because of this structural issue, not just because I have weak feet). Now I am doing a majority of my training in beefy orthotics and Spacers (a weird combo, I know).

Would this be a foolish change at this point? If not, any advice? Thanks.

Yes, made the switch 8 months ago and just ran a 23 second 5K road race PR this morning. 5'9"/118/ALL training and racing in Puma H Streets/averaged 70 miles a week between June and Now (most I've ever been able to manage). It takes time (1-2 months) for your feet/ankles/legs to adjust, but it's worth it.

I train exclusively in the waffle racer. Mostly road with a few miles each week barefoot on grass/dirt. Just take your time in adapting.

Thanks. Could you provide some more details, for example: (1) how you made the transition (i.e., did you start with one run a week w/o orthotics and increase or did you just bring down the mileage and chuck the orthos; what shoes you used through the transition); (2) what you found difficult in the transition; (3) your age (I'm 37; believe me if you are a 20-something, adjustments are more difficult as you get older); and (4) what your pronation problems were.

Congrats on the PR. I could make an argument, however, that using orthotics brought me my PRs. I started using them, increased my mileage, and brought my marathon PR down in 2 years from 2:58 to 2:38. Not looking to argue this point, however. I am interested in any advice that you can provide. Thanks.

Bump for jag

epberlin,

I'm 36, though relatively a slow (shooting for 3:15 in 1st marathon this fall) and novice (started 1.5 yrs ago, ~50 mi/week) runner. I've transitioned to most runs in flats like waffle racers and air streak ekidens, though so far I still do long runs of 15+ in LW trainers or "marathon flats" like adidas taper. I'd run long in flats too if I had a softer surfaced route I enjoyed.

Aside from gradually adding days & distance in flats, IMO what made this pretty easy for me is civilian footwear choices: I never wear running shoes outside of running. In warm weather it's always always always sandals. Split time between Birkenstocks - no heel & little cushioning, but still with lots of arch support; and cheap rubber flat-soled water sandals which provide more cusion, still low heel, and no arch support = make your arches work a little. I think wearing these and going barefoot at home a fair bit really help stretch and strengthen the parts which need it.

The cushiony water sandals with back strap are actually not bad for running. For that matter it can be instructive to jog just a bit, e.g. across the street, in Birks - with no heel strap or heel height or cushioning, you simply cannot heel strike while running in them.

Thanks for your help! I bet that a sub-3 is in your near future.

Every month or two I videotape myself running, to work on my form. I have been working on a midfoot, rather than heel, strike. Today, I used the Nike Free. I was landing midfoot and saw no overpronation. Got figure. There is no doubt that my toes point out more than ideal, but so do the toes of that Ethiopian woman who took 4th and Geb for that matter (not comparing myself, just noting).

for those interested in all the shoe type stuff. bekele and sihine both warmed up in nike zoom elites (sihine had the womens blue clourway on) so i assume that they are their everyday trainers. not quite a flat but a lightwieght trainer for sure.

simonsimonsimon wrote:

for those interested in all the shoe type stuff. bekele and sihine both warmed up in nike zoom elites (sihine had the womens blue clourway on) so i assume that they are their everyday trainers. not quite a flat but a lightwieght trainer for sure.

Spurrious logic, at best.

1. I was coming back from an injury, so I was running low mileage anyways. I completely chucked my orthotics and trainers right from the start of my comeback 8 months ago and trained exclusively in the Onitsuka Ultimate 81's. For someone that's in the middle of high mileage, you could probably simply cut your mileage/intensity down some to let your legs/feet adjust. Add in a little bit of barefoot running as well; this seems to ease the adjustment and make your legs/feet feel really good. As someone else mentioned, wear shoes with lower heels that are more flexible. I have some rope sandals that were always awkward to wear before I started training in flats-- now, with stronger legs and feet my rope sandals are the most comfortable shoes I own! I've also transitioned down to the Puma H Streets, which seem to be as minimal as it gets. I had never been able to get over 62 miles a week healthy in trainers with orthotics, but I've felt great running 70+ miles a week since June.

2. I think I already mentioned this.... there's just soreness, mostly the ankles. There's simply more movement in your ankles; more stretching of the tendons in your feet. But the stretching is normal; tendons are meant to stretch, not be restricted and tightened. I was actually more sore when I was getting used to the Ultimate 81's verses the Puma's (which are more minimal). Also, it feels kind of awkward at first in flats-- you body adjusts so that you land the most efficiently. My stride has smoothened out soooo much in the Puma's (since when I first ran in them and could hear my feet slapping concrete). Instead of landing exclusively on your heels, you learn to land more flat footed, which is how you land barefoot. I haven't had any knee OR hip pain since switching to flats; your feet can better sense where you step and make adjustments accordingly. Your tendons stretch to a greater degree and absorb the energy and disperse the force before it's transferred up the legs. My legs recover quicker after harder workouts.

3. I am young (22), but I have an injury history to boot (including 7 stress fractures)! I just don't see how trainers with orthotics could be any better towards your lower body than flats. My whole lower body has gotten so much more "relief" in flats than I could have ever imagined in trainers! I've been able to train more consistently with less problems. However, if you've found a shoe and/or orthotic combination that works for you, stick with it. I never had much luck with that route, so I was willing to try something radical and it's worked.

4. I have flat feet and overpronate. They say that flat feet are weak feet (hence, they can't control the excess motion adequately). Instead of keeping my feet weak with trainers and orthotics, I've strengthened them with flats so I don't suffer the injuries associated with flat feet. Honestly, I don't see what's so bad about overpronation and why there's such a need to control it with shoes/orthotics. In my case, I found that orthotics simply transferred the stress from my feet to my knees and other joints and bones. Also, your feet are meant to pronate to an extent, and there's MORE pronation in shoes than when running barefoot. Thus, flats help you to get as close to running barefoot as possible and decrease the degree of overpronation; you're simple more stable on your feet.

Just think of how much less weight you'd have on your feet if you wore just flats for a marathon! Less energy needed to pick up your feet up step after step after step.... To think that having MORE under your feet will decrease the force on your legs is FALSE. The following links are invaluable resources....

http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm

:

http://www.coolrunning.com.au/general/1997e003.shtml

http://ww2.mcgill.ca/uro/Rep/r3111/robbins.html

http://www.triathletes-uk.org/info/running.html

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0636.htm

http://nhscc.home.comcast.net/l3_paper.htm

http://www.barefooters.org/key-works/case_for/3.health.html

http://www.geocities.com/jsgilbody/Gordon_book_040104.pdf