So what you are trying to tell me is that a Nazi state elected a Jew to be their president? Brilliant!
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Monkeys Skyping wrote:
agip wrote:
Interesting thread and idea here: that rU is using battle of bahkmut to severely weaken Wagner. Ru does not need the city…but looking past the war the Kremlin believes it needs a weak Wagner.
interesting idea. Shows some cunning.
ISW has been following the Russian political dynamics as they apply to the eastern front for months now.
Wagner has been pushing hard with Prigozhin selling the idea that Wagner is the only Russian force having significant success. He's doing this to elevate his own stature and doing so with absolute disregard to the lives of his recruits.
Prominent mil-bloggers have played on this so Putin was willing to throw the MOD under the bus for losses in the eastern region and Kherson until recently so as to shift the blame for Russia's lack of success for the last half year.
More recently Putin seems to have decided (rightly) that he needs the MOD and a more regular structure of forces to have any hope of long term success, so he's reinstated significant commanders and tried to consolidate irregular forces (DNR, LNR, and Wagner) under the regular Army. He also seems concerned about Prigozhin (or anyone else) gaining the stature to replace him.
The MOD moved elite regular forces into the Bahkmut region so that Prigozhin can't take sole credit if/when Bahkmut is taken, but the working relationship with Wagner isn't great. It's not that the MOD doesn't want Wagner to be successful, it's that they don't want Wagner to be too successful and diminish their influence in the Kremlin.
Ukraine has been tenaciously defending Bakhmut because the geographic advantages and the Russian tactics have resulted in a very high casualty ratio. The article below says, without attribution, "by some estimates at a ratio of 7:1" which would be enormous for two relatively well matched armies. I think the UK intelligence has estimate 5:1, but I can't find the source.
There are also reports of a spit within Ukraine between Zelensky and UA generals over whether to defend Bakhmut or retreat. UA looked to be pulling out a few days ago, but now appears to be trying to launch counterattacks to push back RU advances, while conceding some of the eastern part of the city. Some are concerned that UA is going to follow the same pattern as Mariupol in stranding a large group of soldiers to fight to the bitter end inside the city while all the heavy equipment is pulled out to drop back and establish a new line of defense. It seems that Zelensky sees Bakhmut as having great symbolic value for his war effort and he wants to defend it at all cost. "Bakmhut Holds" is a very popular hashtag among Ukrainians. Zelensky is definitely an emotional leader and most recently was angered by the video of the summary execution of a Ukrainian soldier/POW who shouts "Slava Ukraini" before being taken down by a dozen bullets.
The wildcard in Bakhmut is whether RU's military incompetence has again been put on display. Prigozhin is again complaining of being starved for artillery and claims that MOD is doing it on purpose in order to marginalize the "musicians". There are also reports of wave attacks of Wagner convicts and newly mobilized RU soldiers storming UA lines armed with nothing more than rifles and shovels. If UA is able to hold Bakhmut and use it as an opportunity to severely degrade RU's manpower and equipment, it could play into UA's long (and so far successful) strategy of corrosion. UA wears down RU forces through long defensive quagmires and then is able to launch lightening counter attacks on severely depleted RU lines. If that is what is happening in Bakhmut, the spring could be very interesting for UA.
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NYT is reporting that the Us thinks some kind of anti-Russian force blew up nordstream.
The story is full of ‘not sures’ so cuidado.WASHINGTON — New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year, a step toward determining responsibility for an act of sabotage that has confounded investigators on both sides of the Atlantic for months.
U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials.10 -
agip wrote:
NYT is reporting that the Us thinks some kind of anti-Russian force blew up nordstream.
The story is full of ‘not sures’ so cuidado.WASHINGTON — New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year, a step toward determining responsibility for an act of sabotage that has confounded investigators on both sides of the Atlantic for months.
U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials.The "pro-Ukrainian group" was the Biden administration.
At least we've moved on from the original stupidity of claiming Russia blew up its own pipeline.
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TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
agip wrote:
NYT is reporting that the Us thinks some kind of anti-Russian force blew up nordstream.
The story is full of ‘not sures’ so cuidado.WASHINGTON — New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year, a step toward determining responsibility for an act of sabotage that has confounded investigators on both sides of the Atlantic for months.
U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials.The "pro-Ukrainian group" was the Biden administration.
At least we've moved on from the original stupidity of claiming Russia blew up its own pipeline.
And if the Biden Administration did blow up the Nord Stream pipeline, which there’s still no evidence it did, then may I be the
firstthree hundred-millionth to say, “F*ck yeah!”51 -
Cecci The Serial Liar wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
The "pro-Ukrainian group" was the Biden administration.
At least we've moved on from the original stupidity of claiming Russia blew up its own pipeline.
And if the Biden Administration did blow up the Nord Stream pipeline, which there’s still no evidence it did, then may I be the
firstthree hundred-millionth to say, “F*ck yeah!”That's because you're an idiot. Destroying an ally's pipeline is an act of war.
This post was edited 20 seconds after it was posted.25 -
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
m y 2 c wrote:
So, wild idea here, but it seems like between 2014 and 2022, eight years passed. The relevant date seems like it would be February 2022?
Do you think between 2014, Ukraine didn't acquire any more tanks? Train any more tankers? Build up an army reserve?
And the U.S. National Guard is...completely irrelevant to this discussion?
How is the National Guard irrelevant? Ukraine has one as well. It's is part of the reserve system.
You don't seem to have any idea how military recruitment and training works or how long it takes.
Ukraine had less than 900 active tanks before the war started 55% of which have been destroyed in the war.
I don't see any reason to believe Ukraine has thousands of trained tankers just sitting around waiting for vehicles when there's been a war on for over a year.
The U.S. National Guard is irrelevant because...they're in the U.S.? That seems obvious. And sweeping generalizations about their training aren't useful. Some Guard units with specific missions (like running a sniper school, for example) are highly regarded.
But as you say, Ukraine also has a National Guard. When Ukraine captures some tanks, it seems like the National Guard would be ready to start using them. Or other units. Or whoever needs them. There's a whole branch of the military whose work is to optimize the provision of personnel, training, and equipment, you should look it up!
Oryx documents Ukraine losing 472 tanks (hey, that's 52% of 900, so it looks like you're coming around to trusting a reliable source of information; congratulations on the progress!). He also documents Ukraine capturing 549 tanks. Along with international donations, that gives Ukraine a significantly stronger (and on average more modern) tank force since the start of the war, plus over a year to train up tankers.
I really don't get what your overall point is. You were talking about captured Russian tanks that the Ukrainian army isn't trained to use, which didn't make a bit of sense at the time and still doesn't make sense. If you're at war, and you lose a bunch of tanks, and then you capture a bunch of similar tanks, then the obvious next step is to...use the tanks? Where do you think the pictures and videos of Ukrainian soldiers using captured Russian equipment is coming from?
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If anyone would like to support Ukraine by donating some of their $400,000 annual income (and/or their trophy spouse), here's a list of trustworthy organizations from a reliable source. Everything from aid to Ukrainian kids to gear that goes directly to the front lines.
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TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
Cecci The Serial Liar wrote:
And if the Biden Administration did blow up the Nord Stream pipeline, which there’s still no evidence it did, then may I be the
firstthree hundred-millionth to say, “F*ck yeah!”That's because you're an idiot. Destroying an ally's pipeline is an act of war.
The pipeline is majority owned by Gazprom, who are decidedly NOT an ally. I guess that makes blowing it up an act of “special military operation”.
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BigTex wrote:
So what you are trying to tell me is that a Nazi state elected a Jew to be their president? Brilliant!
Are you saying that jewish can't have nationalist tendencies? Also Zelensky is more Ukrainian than jewish.
Anyways, how many of us live by the ideologies of our grandfathers?
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Cecci The Serial Liar wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
That's because you're an idiot. Destroying an ally's pipeline is an act of war.
The pipeline is majority owned by Gazprom, who are decidedly NOT an ally. I guess that makes blowing it up an act of “special military operation”.
Don't pretend not to understand that such act hurts the EU in a major way. Now it's just a matter of time until German industry is dead. It's like having a stage 4 cancer now.
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Cecci The Serial Liar wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
That's because you're an idiot. Destroying an ally's pipeline is an act of war.
The pipeline is majority owned by Gazprom, who are decidedly NOT an ally. I guess that makes blowing it up an act of “special military operation”.
Germany has a stake in the pipeline. You're either completely ignorant or being intentionally dishonest.
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Cecci The Serial Liar wrote:
Remember Cecci, more than half of all Nazis in the world live in Russia. Every time you find evidence of a Nazi in Ukraine, there are at least ten Nazis in Russia.
Source of statistics?
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m y 2 c wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
How is the National Guard irrelevant? Ukraine has one as well. It's is part of the reserve system.
You don't seem to have any idea how military recruitment and training works or how long it takes.
Ukraine had less than 900 active tanks before the war started 55% of which have been destroyed in the war.
I don't see any reason to believe Ukraine has thousands of trained tankers just sitting around waiting for vehicles when there's been a war on for over a year.
The U.S. National Guard is irrelevant because...they're in the U.S.? That seems obvious. And sweeping generalizations about their training aren't useful. Some Guard units with specific missions (like running a sniper school, for example) are highly regarded.
But as you say, Ukraine also has a National Guard. When Ukraine captures some tanks, it seems like the National Guard would be ready to start using them. Or other units. Or whoever needs them. There's a whole branch of the military whose work is to optimize the provision of personnel, training, and equipment, you should look it up!
Oryx documents Ukraine losing 472 tanks (hey, that's 52% of 900, so it looks like you're coming around to trusting a reliable source of information; congratulations on the progress!). He also documents Ukraine capturing 549 tanks. Along with international donations, that gives Ukraine a significantly stronger (and on average more modern) tank force since the start of the war, plus over a year to train up tankers.
I really don't get what your overall point is. You were talking about captured Russian tanks that the Ukrainian army isn't trained to use, which didn't make a bit of sense at the time and still doesn't make sense. If you're at war, and you lose a bunch of tanks, and then you capture a bunch of similar tanks, then the obvious next step is to...use the tanks? Where do you think the pictures and videos of Ukrainian soldiers using captured Russian equipment is coming from?
I could give you a 15 minute class on a T-72 and you could drive away in it and fire the gun. That doesn't mean you're trained.
The point has always been that they don't have as many trained tank crews as you seem to think. Putting barely trained warm bodies in vehicles isn't as useful as you're pretending.
War isn't a video game. When the tank explodes you don't respawn back at the base and hop in a new tank. You need a new crew. When over 50% of your tank forces are destroyed it's not unheard of to have trained manpower issues.
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Can i be bold an state that at least every second person in the US has nazi tendencies?
Judging by the joy of extermination of Russian soldiers, we have quite a few nazis even in this thread. Innocent boys, both Ukrainian and Russian are being killed in this war.
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no_deal wrote:
Cecci The Serial Liar wrote:
Remember Cecci, more than half of all Nazis in the world live in Russia. Every time you find evidence of a Nazi in Ukraine, there are at least ten Nazis in Russia.
Source of statistics?
This is from Wikipedia, but the two cited sources has more details.
In 2007, it was claimed that Russian neo-Nazis accounted for "half of the world's total".[139][140]
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Cecci The Serial Liar wrote:
This is from Wikipedia, but the two cited sources has more details.
In 2007, it was claimed that Russian neo-Nazis accounted for "half of the world's total".[139][140]
No source of statistics in the article though.
Also, in 2009 a huge crackdown on neo-nazis in Russia began and the situation was remedied. Even "Tesak" - one of the most powerful neo-nazi actors in Russia was murdered in jail. At the moment, I doubt that Russia has more neo-nazis than Ukraine, which without doubt has the most neo-nazis per capita in the world.
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BigTex wrote:
So what you are trying to tell me is that a Nazi state elected a Jew to be their president? Brilliant!
1. These are ADL approved Nazis (Azov) in that they do target ethnicities but not Jews.
2. Azov has the muscle and power but represents a very small % of the population of Ukraine.
3. A Jewish Oligarch (Ihor Kolomoisky) and his billion$ got the comedian Zelensky his "role". Just like in America
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no_deal wrote:
Can i be bold an state that at least every second person in the US has nazi tendencies?
Judging by the joy of extermination of Russian soldiers, we have quite a few nazis even in this thread. Innocent boys, both Ukrainian and Russian are being killed in this war.
Why is every evil person, every evil impulse, called Nazi?
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no_deal wrote:
Cecci The Serial Liar wrote:
This is from Wikipedia, but the two cited sources has more details.
In 2007, it was claimed that Russian neo-Nazis accounted for "half of the world's total".[139][140]
No source of statistics in the article though.
Also, in 2009 a huge crackdown on neo-nazis in Russia began and the situation was remedied. Even "Tesak" - one of the most powerful neo-nazi actors in Russia was murdered in jail. At the moment, I doubt that Russia has more neo-nazis than Ukraine, which without doubt has the most neo-nazis per capita in the world.
“Crackdown”? Ha! Putin has embraced Nazis in Russia for the last 30 years. This has been well document and number ours posts in this thread.
And your statistics for your claim? No, pulling claims out of your *as doesn’t count.
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