Russia is winning. They are still in Ukraine. You are on the wrong side of history. america is much worse since WWII. You don't have a point to start from.
EVERYTHING out of the US is a LIE & FRAUD! Whatever we say about anything, assume the opposite!
US.. "We condemn Fascist, NAZI, etc."
Reality: We support al-Qaeda, ISIS, Ukraine NAZI, Contras...
The point is you said something dumb about captured Russian tanks, and then you tried to claim you were really talking about western tanks. You're not just uninformed, you're arguing in bad faith. Which is what we've come to expect from the pro-Russian cheerleaders.
As to whether you can take a 50-year-old tanker from a T-64 and drop him in a T-72, or from a T-72 into a T-90M, the Russian Army would seem to believe you can. Do you really think spending 2 years in the vicinity of an M1 that you took to the range twice a year makes you smarter than the Russian military? It's a low bar, but you're knocking it off the standards every time.
I said Ukraine doesn't have thousands of tank crewman waiting around for something to do and that even if they did they wouldn't be very well trained.
This is correct no matter how much you whine about it.
Can Ukraine finds warm bodies to put into vehicles? Sure.
So can Russia and we've seen how well poorly and untrained people do in tanks on the modern battlefield.
I spent much more than "2 years in the vicinity" of M1s and yes I can say with complete confidence that a fully trained and experienced American tanker is superior to anything Russia or Ukraine for that matter has to offer.
The Russians are sending tanks into villages without infantry support because they're military geniuses.
Russia wins by attrition. Always has.
Can't wait for american tanks to be Nazi-fied by Ukraine after they are donated. That is something american tax payers can be proud of.
Seen any Russian tanks with "14 / 18" on 'em?!
.
american tanks are not superior to Russian Mango shells, even with extra armor. Or Kornet missiles. Tanks are just fast moving targets that can't outrun missiles.
Ukrainians are already decorating the newly supplied tanks with NAZI symbols. 14 = Adolf Hitler and 88 = Heil Hitler. There goes our tax money, to support Neo Nazis in Ukraine👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇 pic.twitter.com/d9yEyP3A07
Russia is winning. They are still in Ukraine. You are on the wrong side of history. america is much worse since WWII. You don't have a point to start from.
EVERYTHING out of the US is a LIE & FRAUD! Whatever we say about anything, assume the opposite!
US.. "We condemn Fascist, NAZI, etc."
Reality: We support al-Qaeda, ISIS, Ukraine NAZI, Contras...
Reality Ukraine is NOT nor has it ever been a Democracy.
Zelensky has Silenced, Jailed , Killed and Recently Banned Political Opposition. He also recently Closed Christian Churches, Arrested nuns and Priest's, He is NOT the good guy The Media makes him out to be.
Russia is winning. They are still in Ukraine. You are on the wrong side of history. america is much worse since WWII. You don't have a point to start from.
EVERYTHING out of the US is a LIE & FRAUD! Whatever we say about anything, assume the opposite!
US.. "We condemn Fascist, NAZI, etc."
Reality: We support al-Qaeda, ISIS, Ukraine NAZI, Contras...
Reality Ukraine is NOT nor has it ever been a Democracy.
Zelensky has Silenced, Jailed , Killed and Recently Banned Political Opposition. He also recently Closed Christian Churches, Arrested nuns and Priest's, He is NOT the good guy The Media makes him out to be.
US.. "We never agreed to not expand NATO" Reality: Archived documents revealed they agreed then broke their word many times.
Z won his election in 2019 on a peace mandate. I believe he had some good intentions initially (or it was just a lie to get elected) then he got worse with time. america's greed (and threats towards him from his Nazi country) won out in the end. Z likes 1) money and 2) staying alive.
Yes, the only church remaining in Ukraine now worships Nazi's. It is a Nazi state that has eradicated most/all forms of descent and opposition. See the ethnic cleansing of ethnic Russians in the Donbas for starters.
The official Ukrainian church. The only church now allowed in the Ukraine of Volodymyr Zelensky celebrates the birthday of Stepan Bandera. Bandera was a Ukrainian nazi responsible for slaughtering thousands of Poles and Jews.
Reality Ukraine is NOT nor has it ever been a Democracy.
Zelensky has Silenced, Jailed , Killed and Recently Banned Political Opposition. He also recently Closed Christian Churches, Arrested nuns and Priest's, He is NOT the good guy The Media makes him out to be.
US.. "We never agreed to not expand NATO" Reality: Archived documents revealed they agreed then broke their word many times.
You found a copy of the NATO-Russia Agreement?!?! Are you going to post a link to it, or just keep us in suspense?
They can't project that power around the globe any longer but they can sure as hell project it onto their neighbors as Ukraine is finding out.
Iraq had the 4th largest army in the world in 1991. Do you think the world would have treated them the same if they had nuclear weapons when they invaded Kuwait?
Well, the US/West launched a military operation to drive Iraq out of Kuwait, but hasn't sent a single soldier to Ukraine to fight the Russians. It would seem like every person in the world, besides your lot, understands the basic differences when dealing with a nuclear country. That doesn't mean you allow Russia to do whatever it wants without consequence or resistance.
You're either the world's worst negotiator, or you just really want Russia to destroy Ukraine, and your whole shtick here is dishonest.
The West has vigorously protested that no such deal was ever struck. However, hundreds of memos, meeting minutes and transcripts from U.S. archives indicate otherwise. Although what the documents reveal isn’t enough to make Putin a saint, it suggests that the diagnosis of Russian predation isn’t entirely fair.
After the Berlin Wall fell, Europe’s regional order hinged on the question of whether a reunified Germany would be aligned with the United States (and NATO), the Soviet Union (and the Warsaw Pact) or neither. Policymakers in the George H.W. Bush administration decided in early 1990 that NATO should include the reconstituted German republic.
In early February 1990, U.S. leaders made the Soviets an offer. According to transcripts of meetings in Moscow on Feb. 9, then-Secretary of State James Baker suggested that in exchange for cooperation on Germany, U.S. could make “iron-clad guarantees” that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward.” Less than a week later, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to begin reunification talks. No formal deal was struck, but from all the evidence, the quid pro quo was clear: Gorbachev acceded to Germany’s western alignment and the U.S. would limit NATO’s expansion.
They can't project that power around the globe any longer but they can sure as hell project it onto their neighbors as Ukraine is finding out.
Iraq had the 4th largest army in the world in 1991. Do you think the world would have treated them the same if they had nuclear weapons when they invaded Kuwait?
Well, the US/West launched a military operation to drive Iraq out of Kuwait, but hasn't sent a single soldier to Ukraine to fight the Russians. It would seem like every person in the world, besides your lot, understands the basic differences when dealing with a nuclear country. That doesn't mean you allow Russia to do whatever it wants without consequence or resistance.
You're either the world's worst negotiator, or you just really want Russia to destroy Ukraine, and your whole shtick here is dishonest.
What are you responding to?
Iraq had the 4th largest army in the world in 1991. Do you think the world would have treated them the same if they had nuclear weapons when they invaded Kuwait?
They can't project that power around the globe any longer but they can sure as hell project it onto their neighbors as Ukraine is finding out.
Iraq had the 4th largest army in the world in 1991. Do you think the world would have treated them the same if they had nuclear weapons when they invaded Kuwait?
Well, the US/West launched a military operation to drive Iraq out of Kuwait, but hasn't sent a single soldier to Ukraine to fight the Russians. It would seem like every person in the world, besides your lot, understands the basic differences when dealing with a nuclear country. That doesn't mean you allow Russia to do whatever it wants without consequence or resistance.
You're either the world's worst negotiator, or you just really want Russia to destroy Ukraine, and your whole shtick here is dishonest.
Your negotiation is "give us everything we want and shut up".
Well, the US/West launched a military operation to drive Iraq out of Kuwait, but hasn't sent a single soldier to Ukraine to fight the Russians. It would seem like every person in the world, besides your lot, understands the basic differences when dealing with a nuclear country. That doesn't mean you allow Russia to do whatever it wants without consequence or resistance.
You're either the world's worst negotiator, or you just really want Russia to destroy Ukraine, and your whole shtick here is dishonest.
Your negotiation is "give us everything we want and shut up".
Which is why there's a war going on.
You're hopelessly naive.
Oddly enough, Ukraine didn't ask for anything.
Unless, of course, you count, "Please don't invade us and rape, murder and kidnap our civilians" as a demand. Seems like kind of a reasonable ask, don't you think?
You found a copy of the NATO-Russia Agreement?!?! Are you going to post a link to it, or just keep us in suspense?
The "haha you didn't get it in writing" guy is usually never the good guy.
You're endless naivete about how the real world actually works is on display yet again.
We aren't talking about a cash agreement with your neighborhood lawn service or the paperboy. This is a claim that an agreement exists between NATO and Russia regarding matters of enormous international importance. Agreements of the magnitude you clowns are pretending exists could ONLY be in writing and signed by dozens of high ranking executives from dozens of parties. Russia would have absolutely insisted on a written document memorializing it. In fact, no one would have even contemplated for a second not reducing such an agreement to writing. Dozens of proposed drafts of the agreement, all kept in archives and records, would have been exchanged. It's how business is done all over the world every day for decades.
Any claim that NATO and Russia entered into such an agreement, and never reduced it to writing, is up there with claims that the earth is flat. It is actually that demented and stupid.
You're endless naivete about how the real world actually works is on display yet again.
We aren't talking about a cash agreement with your neighborhood lawn service or the paperboy. This is a claim that an agreement exists between NATO and Russia regarding matters of enormous international importance. Agreements of the magnitude you clowns are pretending exists could ONLY be in writing and signed by dozens of high ranking executives from dozens of parties. Russia would have absolutely insisted on a written document memorializing it. In fact, no one would have even contemplated for a second not reducing such an agreement to writing. Dozens of proposed drafts of the agreement, all kept in archives and records, would have been exchanged. It's how business is done all over the world every day for decades.
Any claim that NATO and Russia entered into such an agreement, and never reduced it to writing, is up there with claims that the earth is flat. It is actually that demented and stupid.
You found a copy of the NATO-Russia Agreement?!?! Are you going to post a link to it, or just keep us in suspense?
Didn't somebody on this thread already do this?
No. No one on this thread or on any thread on the internet has ever located a copy of this NATO-Russia agreement you Russia fans keep pretending exists. It's like a search for Noah's Ark at this point.
--------------------
"Is it sane to think that the USSR would take apart the Warsaw Pact without such an agreement (that NATO would not expand)?"
Can someone with the patience for this fool Carmine explain to him what happened to the Warsaw Pact and the USSR? Even one of his fellow Russia fans (AITR, Lolly) could set him straight on this. Anyone? He is very confused, keeps walking into walls, and needs help.
The "haha you didn't get it in writing" guy is usually never the good guy.
You're endless naivete about how the real world actually works is on display yet again.
We aren't talking about a cash agreement with your neighborhood lawn service or the paperboy. This is a claim that an agreement exists between NATO and Russia regarding matters of enormous international importance. Agreements of the magnitude you clowns are pretending exists could ONLY be in writing and signed by dozens of high ranking executives from dozens of parties. Russia would have absolutely insisted on a written document memorializing it. In fact, no one would have even contemplated for a second not reducing such an agreement to writing. Dozens of proposed drafts of the agreement, all kept in archives and records, would have been exchanged. It's how business is done all over the world every day for decades.
Any claim that NATO and Russia entered into such an agreement, and never reduced it to writing, is up there with claims that the earth is flat. It is actually that demented and stupid.
6 upvotes for one of the most ignorant comments ever made. lol.
I know exactly how the real world works. When you ignore a powerful countries warnings repeatedly for DECADES they're will eventually be a war.
The Russians have been complaining about NATO expansion for DECADES.
Whether there was an agreement or not in the 90's they have been complaining about it for DECADES.
The US ambassador to the Soviet union from 1987-1991 thinks the US did give Russia verbal assurances. I value his opinion much more than yours.
I've been away a bit (as I should have stayed), but I'm curious, did adult clarify which of the following is true:
a) Lied about being in the Army for 11 years and/or has ever been around an M1? Or,
b) WAS in the Army for some period of time around M1s, and STILL got owned by a likely non-expert (non-moran) poster about tanks?
A, of course, is more likely. B, far more amusing (and also quite likely).
Oh look our stolen valor guy is back...
How did I get owned exactly?
Countries do not have thousands of extra tank crews laying around even for their own tanks.
The notion that Ukraine has highly trained tank crews who are only waiting for tanks is idiotic. Especially a country like Ukraine which had hardly any military to speak of prior to 2014.
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