The general trend I’m seeing here is that you are overtraining severely. Your workouts are way too hard for your fitness level and you seem to be stuck in a burnout cycle.
If you can run 10x400m in 65, even with 5-6 minutes rest between reps let alone 90 seconds, you should run well under 2:07 for 800m.
You aren’t gonna run a fast 800m in the middle of or at the end of the week when you have already technically “raced” multiple times that week. Train at your level and your times will improve.
800mrunner123 wrote:
Hello, I’m primarily an 800m runner but also race cross country (XC) during XC season. I’ve been running seriously for about 3 years. Here’s a breakdown of my progression:
Year 1 (Aug 2022 – Aug 2023, age 14)
Training: 15–20 miles/week (3 sessions + long run)
• Achievements:
•5k: 19:06 (solo)
•200m: 24.5s (last rep of a speed session)
•800m: 2:08 (61/67 splits)
•400m: 54s on grass, 45 minutes after an 800m race
Year 2 (Aug 2023 – Aug 2024)
•Improved 5k to 18:12 by January
•Had a 6-week injury; after returning in March:
•Built up to 28 miles/week
•Very consistent for 3 months
•In training, kept up with sub-2:00 800m training partners, felt fastest ever
•Race performances: struggled at 450m mark in 800m, never beat 2:08
•Speed: 400m and 200m improved by ~0.5s
•5k tempo runs: ~18:40, likely race pace around 18:00
Year 3 (Aug 2024 – Aug 2025)
•Took a 1-week break in August, then returned extremely consistent
•By mid-October, built up to 35 miles/week, very fast
•Key performances:
•5k: 17:20 on a hilly, muddy 3.5-mile cross country race (British XC)
•Example training sessions:
•10x400m @ 65s, 90s static recovery
•2x(800, 800, 300): 800s @ 2:21, 300s @ 44s, 2 min/200m jog recovery
•2x10 min solo runs @ 5:22 min/mile with 2 min jog recovery
•Kept fitness up until Jan 2025
•January XC county race (tapered):
•Expected to win, was 2nd early, struggled on very steep hill, finished ~20th
•Pace was similar to 10-mile long run pace
•Mid-Jan to mid-March:
•Increased mileage to 40 miles/week, hit every session
•Ran faster than ever in training
•In next major XC race (mid-March), same issue: legs locked up, heart rate 155, but couldn’t maintain pace
•April: tapered off and eventually quit
Since then
•Ran 1–2 10Ks per month
•November: ran solo time trials on road in worn shoes (450 miles) at 0°C:
• 800m: 2:07
• 400m: 53s
•Motivation returned; training now up to 45 miles/week
•Started plyometrics and weightlifting: squats, RDLs, lunges, calf raises, power cleans
•Realized I’m weak for my height/weight (6’2”, 74kg; struggling to squat 70kg x8)
•Upper body: pushups, pullups, dips
Goals / Question
•Given that I hit every session, follow my diet, and recover properly, what could I realistically run for 800m by next May–August?
Your mileage does not at all support the kind of racing and training you are doing. Either focus on building mileage, or cut back on the racing. You probably don't need to be racing 10ks at all much less 1-2 per month if you are focused on the 800m.
As the other poster mentioned, the workouts are too hard too. The 10 x 400m workout especially jumps out at me as an absolutely insane workout for someone with your PRs.
Simplify your training. If 800 is the focus then training should reflect that. You can stay around 45 miles a week. Start with a base phase of 2-3 sessions a week.
Session 1. Threshold Work - repeats of 1000m to 1600m, no faster than 5:20/mi. Short rest is key here: 1 minute, no more. If you can't do it off 1 minute rest then you're not running threshold pace and you need to back off. Aim for 4-5 miles of total volume in the reps (i.e. 4-5 x 1600m, or 6-8 x 1000m)
Session 2. Speed Endurance Work - repeats of 200m to 300m, up to around 3000m of total volume if at mile pace, less if at 800m pace. Again, keep rest controlled to be sure you're not overcooking the reps.
Session 3. Hill Work - a runnable hill, not too steep, about 200m in length. Maybe 2000m of total volume. These should be quick but relaxed
800mrunner123 wrote:
• 800m: 2:07
• 400m: 53swhat could I realistically run for 800m by next May–August?
Well ok, that is an entirely different level of perdormance/training.
This is the venerated old Sub 1:50 training thread. For high level 1:4x runners or guys potentially getting to that level.
Maybe start a new thread and get some input for the topic of getting your 2:07 down into the 1:58 - 2:02 range?
You can get tons of good feedback on here (and some weird dopey feedback too haha). Lots of people with lots of experience, just make a thread and ask :)
Quite a few people have commented on the 10 x 400m session being much better than my racing fitness and that has been a problem for me as I do alot better in sessions than races, but from that workout assuming I was racing at the level I was training at and wasn't burnt out what would you estimate my 800m and mile time to be?
Hi, sorry for not displaying it out neatly, when I said I ran 1-2 10ks per month I didn't mean racing I meant that I had quit running and occasionally once a month or a fortnight I would go for a run with my Dad. The reason I mentioned it was to give context on why I was surprised I came back running an 800m pb solo on road after having pretty much quit for 7 months and think I must have been in some sort of severe state of overtraining maybe explaining why the sessions and race times don't properly correlate. Also thank you for the workout/structure suggestions I will implement them into my training plan.
Hi, sorry for the inconvenience
800mrunner123 wrote:
Hi, sorry for the inconvenience
No inconvenience. Just a clarification.
For example, it wouldn't make sense to post a question about high school running on the Masters 50+ Training thread.
Sincerely - if you post a new thread with your topic, you will probably get lots of great feedback and suggestions.
800mrunner123 wrote:
Quite a few people have commented on the 10 x 400m session being much better than my racing fitness and that has been a problem for me as I do alot better in sessions than races, but from that workout assuming I was racing at the level I was training at and wasn't burnt out what would you estimate my 800m and mile time to be?
Well, that’s a workout that a 4:10-4:20 miler should do, and a 4:10-4:20 miler with 52-53 400m ability will typically run anywhere in the ballpark of 1:53-1:58.
A major lesson to learn is that current race performance should dictate the paces and workouts you attempt in training, and the paces of those workouts don’t directly predict a race result.
The idea is that you shouldn’t be trying to run 10x400m at nearly 800m pace, not that the 10x400m predicts a faster 800m race pace.
If 53 and 2:07 is what you’ve got rn, you should be doing that 10x400m workout in 75 seconds per rep give or take 1-2 seconds in either direction. You test how fast/fit you are on race day, not on a run of the mill 400m repeat day.