"People have been threatened at this meet" - Kara Goucher

Desperation Ploy... Right... wrote:

The "our truth" was from a twitter post - written.

OK, I stand firmly corrected.

Still, I don't see how this suggests that Kara thinks what she and Adam have to say isn't fully truthful. Whatever she meant by it, it's not "our subjective version of the truth," because that would make no sense. She's trying to make a case for herself, not generate a fictionalized biography.

KMB wrote:

If you want to read my whole take on the Goucher-Cytomel-Kara's weight issue and why I think Salazar's rebuttal is a joke, read this:

http://beckofthepack.blogspot.com/2015/06/kara-goucher-and-cytomel-salazars-bait.html

"Kara's claim that Salazar attempted cloud the events of the spring of 2011 is more than credible. Salazar, under the heading "Kara and Cytomel," released this letter he solicited from his pet endocrinologist, Jeffrey Brown, a confirmed maverick of long standing when it comes to thyroid drugs, dated June 11, 2015 and referring to an e-mail on August 20, 2011. Salazar also released a number of e-mails from August 2011 that together appear to confirm that at that time, Kara had a prescription for Cytomel."

What pre-existing thyroid patient introduced doctor (as you put it, "confirmed maverick of lang standing when it comes to thyroid drugs) to Salazar?

The fact that both you and Kara try to paint this as Salazar sending her off to his "pet endocrinologist" (as you put it) to get a drug that she was probably already on (perhaps even like thyroid meds before being coached by Salazar) shows how prejudiced and sloppy you are.

Big deal, take a pecription pill, whoo hoo....It all comes down to who has the best Doc. Like she was bitching when she won a medal?

"given in an appropriate dose" - I did say in small doses. We might be comparing apples with oranges.

"did she study the specific effects of corticocosteroids on athletes" - if you mean is that what her PhD thesis was on, then no.

Obviously there's a reason it's on the banned list. But didn't Rupp get TUEs for short term use? Why would they give him an exemption if it was likely to significantly improve his performance beyond what he would normally be capable of?

I see you've been busy in this thread, but so far what exactly are the NOP group accused or believed to have done? Got dodgy TUEs for prednisone, but TUEs nonetheless? So are they accused of faking symptoms to get TUEs? If so on what evidence, or even on what alleged evidence?

Salazar did a test on his sons - can someone tell me where that makes Farah or Rupp a drug cheat?

I'm not from the USA, so I'm not part of the rivalry thing. I don't get the anti-Rupp anti-Salazar stuff.

After all the huffing and puffing about "getting" NOP, the evidence of cheating produced so far is flimsy,

KMB wrote:

It's plain even from the one e-mail Salazar released from the spring of that year, dated March 11...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0248/8471/files/Exhibit_19.pdf

)

...that Salazar was still concerned that Kara was too heavy, even if he was softening the blow in his conversations with her nutritionist by attributing what he saw as excess to muscle development in her upper body, calves and thighs. There's no telling what he may have said to her in person.

I had never read the email before you posted that link. I find it interesting you glossed right over this:

>> Hi Krista, how does this analysis compare to the last one you did? I think she put on some good upper body muscle and perhaps

even in her calves and thighs. Do your measurements show any of this? Basically, what is her fat. Percentage compared to before? -

Alberto

>> I don't want her shooting for something she can't hit.

This statement demonstrates the opposite, that Alberto didn't want an overly aggressive weight goal, just like his letter stated. Why did you strip this out in your analysis?

What are you asking? Who introduced Brown to Salazar? Alberto was acquainted with him at least as far back as 2006, when Brown diagnosed Galen Rupp as hypothyroid. I'm not sure why your question is important.

The reason I label Brown a maverick is that -- as you'd know if you'd read the WSJ article -- he uses a very low threshold of elevated TSH to make a diagnosis of hypothyroidism. My opinion, if not my wording, is clearly echoed by the endocrinology community.

A drug she was "probably" on, and I'm sloppy and prejudiced?

Kara did have thyroid problems before she came to Salazar. I noted this (Hashimoto's). I also said she was being treated for it (with Levoxyl, to be specific) at the time she says Salazar offered her Cytomel when she did not have a prescription for it. Months later, Brown wrote her a prescription for it.

I didn't paint Salazar as sending her to see Dr. Brown -- Salazar himself says that he did.

How have I stepped out of line here?

Can ayone tell me what Salazar saying things about Goucher's weight has to do with Rupp or Farah doping?

If it's proving he's a liar or a bully (and thatmight be true) that's one thing.

But I'm worried more about finding out whether a dual Olympic gold medallist (and his teammate silver medallist) is clean than character assassination.

not a British PR flack wrote:

This statement demonstrates the opposite, that Alberto didn't want an overly aggressive weight goal, just like his letter stated. Why did you strip this out in your analysis?

Because it would reveal what a liar Kara Goucher is.

Montesquieu wrote:

2. AS wanted Rupp to have an IV at the WC in 2007 and 2011 (why only there? she claims to have been privy to hearing AS in 2001, but not (?) in 2007??). Unfortunately, the original reporting doesn't tell us whether he received a saline IV or not.

The way I understand it, he might have asked if they had IVs and other medical equipment AVAILABLE, which is a big difference to actually asking for something to be given. I'd say it's a world class coach's responsibility to check up on the medical staff's prepardness BEFORE a race - so as to know if they have stuff availabe and ready too AFTER the race should something bad happen to some of the athletes. For example: Have you ever seen an athlete suffer a severe astma attack on the track and realizing the nearby meet staff doesn't even understand what's happening? Not pretty. And not good PR for neither the athlete or the meet organizers. It's not like the NOP can easily carry everything they might need across borders themselves without having THAT questioned instead.

I have not read the whole thread. I read to see who was threatened but there is nothing specific on that from what I see,

As for the rest, from what I have read, I only really care about the testosterone microdosing allegations. The rest seems to be borderline stuff checked with WADA / USADA. I can't imagine getting into checking everyone's inhaler use. I would like to see specifics and now will wait for USADA.

I think it is good that Kara went to USADA but you need to be very careful and specific when going to the press. At the moment, it is Galen who just had two nationally televised stories about him being a cheat before his race aired. he may be guilty but if he is not, that has to be pretty terrible. I have been criticized for saying this before but knowing that 14,17 or 30 people talked to USADA tells me something but it does not tell me anything specific. If a lot of those people are talking about microdosing then things will look bad for Alberto et al.

Citing Lance is common here but odd to me. It became so obvious Lance was a cheat because everyone he beat was caught systematically cheating. He was better than everyone in a world full of cheaters and was even using a corrupt UCI to cover. The scale of the cheating was massive and the cyclists were at unreal levels. Rupp is the best American in one event. His coach is writing to USADA. Some of the stories give me pause (like the testosterone test on a Salazar son - odd but disclosed). so there is always that. But remember, Rupp is not near a world record, he is not that great at the 5000. we have had better 5000 runners (Solinsky, Teg, Ritz, Lagat) and guys like Jäger and Hill have the talent to be better than him. Rupp had a great race in a slower than usual Olympics without great kickers. He is more like Nick Symmonds or Solomon - great American runners who can medal in the right race,

Frankly, I hope we have guys who become better than Galen or challenge him like Solinsky could before he got hurt. I am a bigger fan of our

800 / 1500 runners and Jager. I like True and Derrick as well.

not a British PR flack wrote:

I find it interesting you glossed right over this:

>> Hi Krista, how does this analysis compare to the last one you did? I think she put on some good upper body muscle and perhaps

even in her calves and thighs. Do your measurements show any of this? Basically, what is her fat. Percentage compared to before? -

Alberto

>> I don't want her shooting for something she can't hit.

This statement demonstrates the opposite, that Alberto didn't want an overly aggressive weight goal, just like his letter stated. Why did you strip this out in your analysis?

I didn't gloss over it or strip it out. Would you have expected Salazar to say anything different to Kara's personal nutritionist, with whom she presumably had a solid rapport, and leave a record of it?

I'm basing my assessment of Salazar's spring 2011 e-mails on Kara being truthful about Salazar giving her someone else's Cytomel in March 2011. If he did, it clearly upends any rah-rah stuff her wrote to her nutritionist about her weight. And if he didn't, he hasn't said as much.

I ask again, why didn't Salazar produce the three e-mails he mentions between March 11, 2011 and the Boston Marathon in which he supposedly expresses great pleasure about her weight? Why just the one?

Give Me A Break wrote:

The fact that both you and Kara try to paint this as Salazar sending her off to his "pet endocrinologist" (as you put it)....

Amazing that the ONLY endocrinologist Salazar can use is located in Texas nearly 2,000 from Oregon. Who knew there was such an epic lack of endocrinologists in the U.S. Why did Salazar have to shop for a doctor based so far away from his troops? The cost of flying to Texas from Oregon and back makes Salazar's Dr. Drown a necessary "pet" to get the "result" Salazar demands, needs, and is willing to pay top dollar for.

yoyomama wrote:

The only thing that didn't ring true to me in that interview, is when Kara said the "media have been harrasssing me...FOR YEARS, since 2011" or something like that.

WHAT?

I've been to many of her press conferences over the years and I've never once witnessed any writers "harassing" Kara or even asking any tough questions (except "what happened" after a loss? or what it was like to come back from pregnancy.) I can't even fathom what they would have been "harrassing" her about.

Anyone else have some insight? Any other media know what she's talking about?

It reminds me of Adam Goucher in 2010 when discussing making a comeback he said something like, "I'm going to cross the finish line giving everybody the middle finger". Everybody was shocked because nobody was talking trash on him. They wanted him to do well but in his head he thought he was hated. It didn't surprise me when Salazar said he was emotional and belligerent after the trials. Adam seems like a head case.

It's because he didn't have permission from the trainier and Kara Goucher to release them. He accurately summarizes the emails. Here they are again for you reference

brogan1 wrote:

It reminds me of Adam Goucher in 2010 when discussing making a comeback he said something like, "I'm going to cross the finish line giving everybody the middle finger". Everybody was shocked because nobody was talking trash on him. They wanted him to do well but in his head he thought he was hated. It didn't surprise me when Salazar said he was emotional and belligerent after the trials. Adam seems like a head case.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3421407

Because Salazar mentioned Kara being responsible for NOP and Dr. Brown relationship (probably means she brought her doctor-patient relationship with her when she joined NOP in what around 2004?). So far no denial of this point from the Goucher camp. Here's by post by somebody else thinking along same lines as me about Goucher:

KMB wrote:

[quote]I ask again, why didn't Salazar produce the three e-mails he mentions between March 11, 2011 and the Boston Marathon in which he supposedly expresses great pleasure about her weight? Why just the one?

Kara Important Goucher wrote:

It's because he didn't have permission from the trainier and Kara Goucher to release them. He accurately summarizes the emails. Here they are again for you reference

How do you know he didn't have permission from the trainer?

Why would Kara have given him permission to release some emails and not others.

And since they were never released, how do you know that Alberto has summarized them "accurately?"

Here is something I find strange in Alberto's letter, in reference to a 3-25-11 email.

Her nutritionist emailed Kara to let her know that I was fine with the approach they had laid out and that I did not want Kara going for too much.

if Alberto was coaching her why didn't he just tell her himself that he was fine with the nutritionist's approach and didn't want her to overdo losing weight? Why would a world class coach use a nutritionist as an intermediary??

Kevin52 wrote:

Lorenzo the Magnificent wrote:

I'm always a little uneasy when people put a pronoun in front of the word "truth." His truth, my truth, their truth means no truth.

Ding ding ding...

You must be so proud to write "Ding ding ding..." about something which is completely irrelevant.

Desperation Ploy... Right... wrote:

"It was obviously just a slip, one she wouldn't have made in writing..."

The "our truth" was from a twitter post - written.

That relativistic thinking is seen again when she complains about wishing Salazar would have just said "his truth" without the personal stuff (like all her emails going on about how much she loves him and will love him forever).

Are you really that stupid? I mean seriously, are you?

Yes, talking about "my truth" and "his truth" is an annoying habit. But it is entirely irrelevant. Anyone with an IQ north of 70 will have no trouble recognizing this for what it is - a rather annoying way of saying "my side of the story" and "his side of the story".

So again, do you have an IQ north of 70?