Do people honestly think that Micheal Jordan is better than LeBron James?

slowasmolasses wrote:

Not expressing an opinion. Here are some facts.

Best Single Season - Combined Points-Assists-Rebounds

MJ (88-89): 32.5/8.0/8.0, 48.5 (total), also shot 54% from the field!

LBJ (07-08): 30.0/7.2/7.9, 45.1 (total)

NBA Finals wins

MJ: 6 wins in 15 years, 40%

LBJ: 1 win in 9 years, 11%

Top Players of Era

MJ: Bird, Magic, Barkley, Thomas, Malone, Drexler, Wilkins, Stockton, Olajuwon, Ewing

LeBron: Kobe, Nowitzki, Durant, Wade

The fact that you leave off Duncan proves you have no idea what you're talking about

gamecock wrote:

Amen. I like to think I am reasonably open-minded. I can understand why smart people of goodwill can hold different political beliefs, different religions (or rejection of same), even different standards of beauty. But I am stunned that anyone who considers themselves any sort of basketball fan could argue in good faith that LBJ is in the same conversation as MJ.

I am with you 100% and have actually said almost verbatim to people what you said in your third sentence. LeBron James is a great, great player, perhaps the best on the planet playing right now, but Michael Jordan was at another level. The determination, the leadership, the will to win...all unmatched. Serious physical talent to go along with all that too.

You kidding? Jordan hands down. First of all, all those rings gives you a clue. Not taking anything away from LBJ. Jordan sunk that shot to lead NC to the championship. Jordan is the type of guy that make his teammates shine. Minus him watch what happens to the Bulls. The key word is indispensable. You need a Jordan, LBJ maybe not so much.

I agree. LeBron is not yet in the same conversation as MJ. Last night in Game 6 of the finals against the Spurs, he actually looked scared of the moment. Like he wanted everyone to just let him win so he could be called the greatest and couldn't believe the Spurs were going to take that from him. He was very lucky to be bailed out by some clutch plays by Ray Allen and Chris Bosch. He's a great athlete and talent, but he doesn't have MJ's indomitable will and desire to seize those types of moments.

Jordan has six championship rings. Case closed.

Saw him play live a few times, hey the only thing I liked better than Michael beating up the Golden State Warriors at the Oakland Coliseum was to see Jerry Garcia rip it up with the Dead.

i hope the OP has finally changed his tune. at no time during his years with the bulls did jordan ever not fulfill the clutch. lebron is a failure in this many times over now. in my mind, until lebron changes this over and over again ajnd ends up with 6-7 championships, THEN you can consider him being the greatest ever. it's kind of like saying webb is america's greatest miler ever. sure, he time trialed some fast races, including the current AR. however, when it came to championship racing in the WC's or Olympic Games, he was an also ran. kudos for being in the championships and putting up fast times, but definitely not in the class of the Scotts or Ryuns.

Horst Girth wrote:

Jordan has six championship rings. Case closed.

Saw him play live a few times, hey the only thing I liked better than Michael beating up the Golden State Warriors at the Oakland Coliseum was to see Jerry Garcia rip it up with the Dead.

Why are people so obsessed with the number of rings? Rings are reflective of a TEAM not an individual.

gamecock wrote:

Amen. I like to think I am reasonably open-minded. I can understand why smart people of goodwill can hold different political beliefs, different religions (or rejection of same), even different standards of beauty. But I am stunned that anyone who considers themselves any sort of basketball fan could argue in good faith that LBJ is in the same conversation as MJ.

Flagpole wrote:

I am with you 100% and have actually said almost verbatim to people what you said in your third sentence. LeBron James is a great, great player, perhaps the best on the planet playing right now, but Michael Jordan was at another level. The determination, the leadership, the will to win...all unmatched. Serious physical talent to go along with all that too.

I believe it was sportswriter Frank Deford who described Jordan as "The rare supremely talented overachiever" or something to that effect.

No need to look at rings, just watch Lebron in the final moments of last night's game 6: one air ball, one missed shot, and a bricked three in the games final moments. Without a true clutch player, Ray Allen, this series would be over.

Michael Jordan is like the distance runner who always pulls out another gear to win in championship races, aka Bekele. At the end of the game, stats, or at the end of the race, PRs don't matter; all that matters is the ability to win. Lebron once again showed last night that he doesn't have that. He's great at basketball but he's not a great competitor.

I would further add, in Lebron's defense, he is probably mentally healthier than Jordan. The more you read about Jordan, the more you discover he was genuinely pathological. So, to a somewhat lesser extent, were Bird and Magic. That "next gear" doesn't really come from a sane place.

heyyo wrote:

No need to look at rings, just watch Lebron in the final moments of last night's game 6: one air ball, one missed shot, and a bricked three in the games final moments. Without a true clutch player, Ray Allen, this series would be over.

Michael Jordan is like the distance runner who always pulls out another gear to win in championship races, aka Bekele. At the end of the game, stats, or at the end of the race, PRs don't matter; all that matters is the ability to win. Lebron once again showed last night that he doesn't have that. He's great at basketball but he's not a great competitor.

And without a clutch player not named Jordan, Jordan would have fewer rings. Did you even watch basketball when Jordan was playing?

And of course PRs matter. That's why Bekele always had another gear. Because he's faster than everyone else.

Yah I did watch him. Did you? Jordan didn't air ball nonsense shots with less than 30 seconds remaining like Lebron.

I'm pretty sure Jordan hit a buzzer beater to win the NBA finals in his last game ever on the Bulls. That is the definition of clutch.

Ya ya PRs matter. You miss the point. No one cares about someone with fast times if they can't win in the championships. For example, Alan Webb does have the AR from some podunk meet in Paris or some crap, but he never won an olympic medal. He can't and couldn't perform when it counted. That's what separates the Statistics from the Greats.

heyyo wrote:

Yah I did watch him. Did you? Jordan didn't air ball nonsense shots with less than 30 seconds remaining like Lebron.

I'm pretty sure Jordan hit a buzzer beater to win the NBA finals in his last game ever on the Bulls. That is the definition of clutch.

Ya ya PRs matter. You miss the point. No one cares about someone with fast times if they can't win in the championships. For example, Alan Webb does have the AR from some podunk meet in Paris or some crap, but he never won an olympic medal. He can't and couldn't perform when it counted. That's what separates the Statistics from the Greats.

That makes no sense. How can you say Jordan is better and more clutch because he hit a buzzer beater in his last game? When has Lebron ever had the chance to hit a buzzer beater on his retiring game? When did Lebron retire?

Plenty of people care about PRs. You honestly think no one cares about Alan Webb? Webb probably has a thread started about him daily. Championships aren't the only thing that count in running. Or do you not consider Bannister an all-time great?

here is the thing about this statistic nonsense: if you tell Jordan and LeBron that the goal is to accumulate a triple double with the best stats, then that is what they will do. The goal is to win, not to accumulate stats.

Oscar Robertson has better stats than Lebron and the same # of rings. Oscar invented the head fake and fadeaway. There are so many players that could replace Lebron and no one except Kobe could replace MJ.

For anyone who really wants to think Lebron is better than Jordan, look in the mirror and ask yourself could Boris Diaw shut down MJ ever? There is a reason they invented the Jordan rules, they had to, nothing else worked.

Lebron is a good player but he does not know his identity at 6'8" he needs to get in the paint go to the rack and the free throw line. right now he is a crybaby.

I watch almost zero NBA hoops currently, but did tune in last night, largely to see James in action. If last night is any indication, he is no Jordan. James did help will them back at points in the fourth quarter (big block, some clutch baskets at crucial times). But he floundered too, especially in the closing minutes (his three--after the bricked attempt--being an obvious exception).

He missed some easy shots, lost the ball a few times, and did a whole lot of useless crying to the refs instead of hustling back down the court. He can be dominant, for sure, but I didn't see him take over last night like Jordan took over so many times.

Admittedly part of my preference for Jordan over Lebron is their style of play. Jordan was poetry in motion: graceful, athletic, fluid...James is a bull (har har) in a China shop.

You guys act like Jordan never missed a shot or lost a game. You know he went YEARS without winning his 1st title, right?

I know he missed his share, but in championship series he delivered more often than not...and he delivered often. Are you disputing that fact?

Thank you. Someone knows basketball. Lebron played damn good for the first 8 min of the fourth quarter but at the 4 min mark, he crumbled under pressure again and his teammates had to bail him out. Here's some statistics for you guys. At the 4 minute mark, Lebron went 2-8 and had four turnovers. If you're a "Legendary" player, you are suppose to shine in these moments. When crunch time happens, he still fails to seize that moment. People talk about his triple double which was pretty good but it was a "quiet" triple double just like 2011 NBA finals. Heck I didn't know he had a triple double until after the game was over.

Lebron is without a doubt the best player on the planet right now. However, until Lebron can retire after winning 3 titles to play baseball following the murder of one of his parents, then return and win 3 more titles, he isn't even in the same galaxy as Jordan.