Phelps is NOT the greatest olympian ever...

Jessie Owens, Micheal Johnson, geb, bolt, Carl lewis.

Counting swimming is like counting gymnastics, the depth of competition in those sports is miniscule in comparison to track. They are hard sports but you can't ever compare because over 60% of the worlds population cant swim.

As Bolt said four years ago when he was asked about what he thinks of Phelps greatness, "you can't compare us because Phelps is a swimmer and I'm an athlete." It may not be the word for word quote, but it's hilarious. And since I'm a runner who can't really swim at all then I love that.

All in all it doesn't really matter. Outside of the Olympics nobody knows anything about swimming. Next Summer NOBODY will be talking about Phelps and swimming. At least track is marginally watched during the World Champs and other big track meets. It's like comparing Football and Basketball. How can you say one is better or one is more difficult? They both have certain aspects that take sheer natural talent in order to be great.

Sports that nations concentrate ostensibly to try to up their total medal count suffers a bit of inflationary probem. I would say 1 track gold = 4 swimming golds. Anybody who can win 100m/200m or 5K/10K double is as stout if not more in my mind. You have to look at olympic sports comparisons like currency exchange before you do any greatest ever proclamations otherwise you may get fleeced.

And I haven't even mentioned track being much deeper than swimming.

And I havent even mentioned 16 year old girls swimming faster laps than the best male swimmers.

Phelps is NOT the greatest Olympian ever...

I agree!

I have not read through this entire thread, therefore I will keep it brief to avoid stating what probably has already been said. Perhaps I am biased, but the greatest Olympian should always be a track & field athlete and here is why:

1. Swimming is not a pure sport. A pure sport is a test of speed, endurance, strength, agility and is subject to the forces of nature such as gravity, wind, rain and tempature. The decathlon/heptathlon encompasses all of these; however, the decathlon/heptathlon is not a global sport.

2. Swimming is not a global sport. A global sport is one that every person on the planet can participate in. I would guess less than half of the world participate in swimming. You can't say you are the greatest Olympian if over half of the world does not participate in your sport and in many cases don't have the capability to participate in.

3. Any sport where you can be a world class athlete having not reached puberty -or old enough to be a grandparent, can't possibly quality as the greatest Olympian. Swimming and gymnastics for example, have world class athletes as young as age 13; Phelps himself won an Olympic medal at age 15. Equestrian and shooting events have had athletes as old as 60. 13 and 60 are clearly outside of the age range of peak athletic capability. The average age world class track & field athlete is the mid to late-20s, which coincides with peak athletic ability.

Although the decathlon/heptathlon are not truely global events, but the nature of being the best over several events, which require a combination of speed, endurance, strength and agility means that multi-event athletes like Jackie Joyner-Kersee, Rafer Johnson and Daley Thompson for example absolutely have to be in argument for the greatest Olympian. Daley Thompson won 2 Olympic gold medals, finish 4th in another one and set the world record 4 times.

For fairly obvious reason Carl Lewis and Jesses Owens would have to be considered. Because of the unique circumstances, in my heart I, I place Jesses Owens ahead of Carl Lewis, but as a purely statistical matter, I place Lewis over Owens. For the same reasons I slightly discount any Olympic distance running event gold medals won before the emergence of athletes from East and North Africa; I slightly discount any sprint medals won because the emergence of Caribbean athletes… Jesses Owens did not have to contend with Caribbean athletes.

Jackie Joyner-Kersee is the greatest Olympian ever...

Jackie Joyner-Kersee won 2 Olympic heptathlon gold medals, a silver and holds the still standing heptathlon world record. JJK was also a successful 100m hurdler, 200m sprinter and long jumper; in the 1988 Olympics, she won the heptathlon Olympic gold medal in the long jump gold medal. She won another Olympic medal in the long jump at the 1992 Olympics in addition to the hepthlon gold. She won the bronze medal in the 1996 Olympic long jump, but was unable to complete the heptathlon because of injury.

With all of that said, you can't discount an athlete who has amassed 19 medals and counting, which is why I place Phelps somewhere near the back half of the top-10. If Phelps had been as dominate this time like he was 4 years ago, I would place him somewhere in the top half of the top-10; however, I don’t think we can ever say a swimmer is the greatest Olympian ever. Btw, if Jamaica’s Usain Bolt repeats what he did 4 years ago in Beijing, it will difficult to argue that he is not at least the greatest Olympic male athlete.

If swimming took out the relays and different strokes it would be the equivalent of track having only the 200, 400, 800, mile, 6000, and marathon.

So, basically it would be almost perfect, because that is what track should be.

Bolt does not enter the discussion. Neither does Geb. You need a medal in at least 3 Olympics to qualify for greatest Olympian ever, in my opinion. Bolt dominated at 1 Olympics, Phelps dominated two. Phelps>Bolt. Phelps may not be better than Lewis however, I like Lewis as the GOAT.

The overall talent pool for swimming may be smaller, but the depth of the fields at the Olympics are similar. It no harder to make a swimming final than it is to make a track final.

bromo wrote:

Yeah.... And there is the possibility for each athlete to compete in 1 hurdle event, either the 110 or 400. That's one medal. Correct me if I'm wrong 'bro' but there is a 100,200 butterfly and butterfly leg of the medley. 3 chances of an event that isn't first to the finish.

And that's playing your game. Fact is hurdles are obstacles and they are getting over them in the fastest way from point a to point b. Butterfly isn't an obstacle. Every obscure stroke in the pool is equivalent to the race walk.

It's hard to win an arguement when your wrong ay

Two hurdle events. One barrier event. That's 3 medals, hot stuff.

Butterfly is the fastest way to get from point A to B using that technique. Just like jumping over hurdles and jumping barriers is the fastest way to get from point a to b. I can play your sorry too.

Come at me, bro, when you got something better than that, bro. And next time don't bring the weak sauce, bro.

You obviously didn't graduate kindergarten. It is impossible to medal at 110 hurdles and 400m hurdles. Obviously you can't even read whats in front of you. The butterfly is a) not the equivalent of a barrier event, it is a less efficient method of swimming and b) has 3 events where it is possible to medal in. The biggest indication of your ignorance is alluding to the 110, 400 and steeple Chase as viable medal choices for one athlete to attain at one games.

Butthurt much

Bro, running isn't even a sport. It's a warm up.

Butterfly is the equivalent to the race walk buddy...

Slower way to get from point a to point b.

Hurdles are a barrier; the athlete is still sprinting. The athlete isn't running backwards, sideways, with his arms folded, with his hands on his head, hopping, skipping, flailing his arms in a circle or any other vairable to sprinting that would equate to the butterfly...

bromo wrote:

You obviously didn't graduate kindergarten. It is impossible to medal at 110 hurdles and 400m hurdles. Obviously you can't even read whats in front of you. The butterfly is a) not the equivalent of a barrier event, it is a less efficient method of swimming and b) has 3 events where it is possible to medal in. The biggest indication of your ignorance is alluding to the 110, 400 and steeple Chase as viable medal choices for one athlete to attain at one games.

Butthurt much

An Olympian greater than Phelps could medal in those three events.

Humans weren't supposed to swim. That's why god put waves and big ass muther d'kin sharks in the water. The waves keep spitting humans back to shore and the idiot whiteboys say f'uck you ocean ima do whateva tha f'uck i want. God gets the shits and sends his shark homeboys to eat their ass.

Ain't no one got the mo'f'uckin message yet: we ain't meant to swim!

bro report wrote:

Bro, running isn't even a sport. It's a warm up.

LMAO (funny and true)

good for national pride but wrote:

Sports that nations concentrate ostensibly to try to up their total medal count suffers a bit of inflationary probem. I would say 1 track gold = 4 swimming golds. Anybody who can win 100m/200m or 5K/10K double is as stout if not more in my mind. You have to look at olympic sports comparisons like currency exchange before you do any greatest ever proclamations otherwise you may get fleeced.

And I haven't even mentioned track being much deeper than swimming.

And I havent even mentioned 16 year old girls swimming faster laps than the best male swimmers.

So Carl Lewis has the equivalent of 36 gold medals, including 16 in one games?

Track is medal inflated too, it's just harder for one guy to win multiple medals. If anything the team sports medals are the ones that should count for more than one.

bromo wrote:

You obviously didn't graduate kindergarten. It is impossible to medal at 110 hurdles and 400m hurdles. Obviously you can't even read whats in front of you. The butterfly is a) not the equivalent of a barrier event, it is a less efficient method of swimming and b) has 3 events where it is possible to medal in. The biggest indication of your ignorance is alluding to the 110, 400 and steeple Chase as viable medal choices for one athlete to attain at one games.

Butthurt much

How many events do they run on track at the same time, come again?

sbeefyk1 wrote:Next Summer NOBODY will be talking about Phelps and swimming.

False. When Mark Spitz won 7 golds in '72 -- all in World Record time -- it was Olympic feat that endured for a very, very long time. Perhaps you're not old enough to appreciate this fact.

Every Olympic track 100m gold medallist is better than phelps.

Swimming equals equestrian

How many 13yr olds compete at the Olympics in track?

How many black people swim?

What a conundrum/

Thats what makes it more special than running...excelling at something we weren't meant to do and many people can't excel at.

grsp8 wrote:

Humans weren't supposed to swim. That's why god put waves and big ass muther d'kin sharks in the water. The waves keep spitting humans back to shore and the idiot whiteboys say f'uck you ocean ima do whateva tha f'uck i want. God gets the shits and sends his shark homeboys to eat their ass.

Ain't no one got the mo'f'uckin message yet: we ain't meant to swim!