lagat 3:32.56 in Morocco

& i heard him on eurosport saying "at least 47s"

so i'll stick with what i heard with my own 2 ears, not your nonsense

drivel

they started chasing records from get go

drivel

there were koblenz, colognes, rietis aplenty back then on top of the elites of oslo, zurich, etc - even more meets in fact as cologne & some of the german meets are now defunct

nonsense

before '83, the only champs that non-euros cared about was once every 4y - OG - non-euros were chasing fast times whenever they got a chance 3y out of 4

you seem to have idiotically missed the fact that between '81 - '86, 5 guys in coe, ovett, maree, cram, aouita set either 1500/mile records & one in scott came close in the mile

it was a period of intense record chasing

i assume because you were in short trousers watching this your brain wasn't developed enough to grasp this simple observation

i'm not interested in your perpetual coe whining

ovett & maree managed just fine to break WRs without crying about pacing

& in his 1500 record it was piss-poor, reaching bell in 2'32

seeing as herb ran 3'35 on dirt & solo, probably worth 3'32 on synthetic, similar to bayi, the answer is no

only a moron woud ask such a dumb question

ooh i luv it when u talk dirty ventolin

ventolin wrote:

only a moron woud ask such a dumb question

ventolin.

you are crazy.

You always evade the facts others come up with Ventolin, while perpetuating your own blinkered view of things.

Anyone who is old enough to remember the early '80's knows that there were fewer world class meets attracting big names en masse, as they were less organized and there was less money involved. Of course record chasing grew during the 80's, but they didn't have 2 or 3 rabbits per race, where one would run 2 laps and the other a third, as they had in the late 90's.

Come on, EL G even had his own pace makers in major Champs!

Rabbits were in their infancy at this time, and they would invariably use a mediocre 800m to pace a 15, who would then bail out after 1k, rather than use the strong 1500m runners that would actually get you to the bell with a decent shot at the record.

Didn't EL G have Ngeny for a few of his fast runs? That's a bit like Coe taking Ovett to 1200m.

"before '83, the only champs that non-euros cared about was once every 4y - OG - non-euros were chasing fast times whenever they got a chance 3y out of 4

you seem to have idiotically missed the fact that between '81 - '86, 5 guys in coe, ovett, maree, cram, aouita set either 1500/mile records & one in scott came close in the mile

it was a period of intense record chasing[quote]ventolin wrote:

You go on about opportunities for non Euros before '83. Well, of the 5 guys you mention, 3 ARE European.

Have you any understanding of the demands on British athletes at this time. Even the likes of Coe and Ovett couldn't go abroad without the say so of Andy Norman, and then it was in return for appearing in a set number of international matches that were high priority during this era.

From 1980 - 1984, they would have expected to take part in:- 1980- Olympics; '81 Europa Cup (semis and finals), World Cup; 1982-European & Commonwealths; 1983- Europa Cup & World Champs; 1984- Olympics. Thats a pretty heavy schedule for someone to fit in bi-weekly record attempts.

As for Aouita, he wasn't in a position to chase records before 1983. Maree was an anomaly who could break a record one week in 2 years and place well down the field on most other occasions. He had maybe a handful of realistic record attempts during his career.

I look forward to your rambling rude response punctuated with your usual school-boy vocabulary of "drivel", "nonsense", "clueless", etc. ;0)

nonsense

you provide nothing but baseless drivel that guys in '80s had it so much harder chasing WRs back then - they didn't - proof is in 5 guys breaking 1500/mile WRs in 5y span

you clearly weren't old enough

evry meet spent most of their budget on 1500/mile event & tried to get best wabbits possible - no one came to see 100/200 races - the promoter billed meet as 1500/mile WR attempts

events like cologne/koblenz were effectively little more than 1 event meets centred around 1 race

a new strategy tried recent years, but little effect - still only getting to bell in 2'35 in most cases

so coud anyone else if a team-mate was willing to sacrifice themselves for you

nonsense

they had james robinson a 1'44 guy pacing

where is the 1'44 wabbit today ?

in addition, the brits coud get one of their top 800 guys wabbiting for them - usually a team-mate of 1'46 calibre, sometimes even 1'45 & they hung on best they coud

however, history upto modern day tells us any guy expecting to be paced to the bell is wasting his time - wabbits do not usually hold on between 800 - 1100m & if you want the WR, you have to go from at least 450m out & better 500m - morceli's 3'27wr is greatest example

err...

noah wasn't a 2'11/3'43 guy at the time - soon as he realised he was capable of that, he bacame his own racer

drivel

the only races that differ then from then to today are the europa cups - a coupla weekends in the year - all other races woud be expected to be run by a top european today as back then

to counter this, there were the large number of continental meets, especially german, like koblenz/cologne to chase records - meets no longer available

you are illiterate - i stated '81 - '86 as years in question

as for maree, you clearly know nothing about him - illness/injury dogged his career - capable of WRs back in '81 when he ran 5th avenue mile, actually doing so in '83 over 1500, injured in '84 when he wouda threatened for gold & then coming back to run an incredible 3'29.77 in '85 just 2/7 after losing to aouita in berlin - without that berlin fatigue, he wouda gone into the 3'28s that day in cologne & probably held WR until the '90s - most relentless 1500 i ever saw in the '90s

if all i see posted is drivel, i'll call it

What a cock you are!

"you clearly weren't old enough

evry meet spent most of their budget on 1500/mile event & tried to get best wabbits possible - no one came to see 100/200 races - the promoter billed meet as 1500/mile WR attempts

events like cologne/koblenz were effectively little more than 1 event meets centred around 1 race"

I was plenty old enough thanks. Perhaps you weren't getting full coverage of the events where you were living at the time?

"nonsense

they had james robinson a 1'44 guy pacing

where is the 1'44 wabbit today ?"

Robinson was a bloody awful pacemaker. He's the one who ran the 1st lap in 51.** in a 1500m in Stockholm.

"drivel

the only races that differ then from then to today are the europa cups - a coupla weekends in the year - all other races woud be expected to be run by a top european today as back then

to counter this, there were the large number of continental meets, especially german, like koblenz/cologne to chase records - meets no longer available"

You haven't got a clue! Try reading some literature from the period, especially concerning Andy Norman. There were at least 6 or 7 "international matches" on the UK yearly fixtures list (e.g UK v USA, UK v France, etc) in the late '70's/early 80's, outside of the Europa Cup or major Champs, that the British athletes had to compete in to get permission to run abroad in Invitational meets. Ovett was somewhat exempt due to his close working relationship with Major Norman.

"you are illiterate - i stated '81 - '86 as years in question"

No, moron! You said "before '83, the only champs that non-euros cared about was once every 4y - OG - non-euros were chasing fast times whenever they got a chance 3y out of 4"

Aouita was non-European, but he wasn't chasing WR's in 81-83, because he wasn't good enough. So from 84-88 he would have had 2 Olympics and 1 World Champs to aim for, giving him 2 years in 5 to chase records.

"as for maree, you clearly know nothing about him - illness/injury dogged his career - capable of WRs back in '81 when he ran 5th avenue mile, actually doing so in '83 over 1500, injured in '84 when he wouda threatened for gold & then coming back to run an incredible 3'29.77 in '85 just 2/7 after losing to aouita in berlin - without that berlin fatigue, he wouda gone into the 3'28s that day in cologne & probably held WR until the '90s - most relentless 1500 i ever saw in the '90s"

I know enough thanks. Enough to know that he wasn't capable of breaking Wr's in '81, otherwise he wouldn't have been 4 secs behind Coe in Brussels (where there was WR pace for him) or been trounced by Ovett in the World Cup, both within a month before the 5th Avenue Mile, which has no bearing on what an athlete can do on the track as it is a straight and mainly downhill course (overall drop of 30ft).

Also enough to know that he was well beaten by Aouita in his WR by 3.5 secs in '85. In Cologne he went through 800 in 1:51 and had Abdi Bile! take him though 1100m in 2:33.3 and 1200m in 2:47.4. Thats very efficient pacing and he had loads of help there. Could only manage 42 for the last 300m. If he could go 3:28 that day when supposedly tired, how come he could only go 3:32.9 2 days earlier when he'd have been fresher?

bullshit

you were in short trousers watching & you're telling grown men at the time what the situation was ?!

shut up kid

moron

where is the 1'44 wabbit today ???

& stop the hell whining about coe, which seems to be your only existence on this planet

robinson paced ovett to a wr - he's not complaining

get a brain idiot

non-euros means americans & africans

idiot

this was in reference to 1500/mile wr breaking

idiot

i gave a 5y period, because same as in '81 - '84 cram wasn't good enough to chase WRS but by '85 he & aouita were in a league apart over everyone else

& ovett's Wr chasing days were over by '83

an overall drop which cost nothing more than tenths & in addition pacing much more difficult to judge in a straight race

you clearly have no clue how good that run was or how much press it got

by '83 he was consistent & a WR holder - only injury in '84 setting him back again

the greatest most relentless run 1500 of the decade & if you saw the race ( which i doubt you did ), it was incredible how he coud run that race with the fatigue of that berlin race of 2/7 ago in his legs

if you'd seen the race, you'd have seen that he wavered in the stretch when that fatigue set in & noticeably slowed far more than he shoud have if fresh

without the big money berlin race in his legs, he wouda been much stronger in the stretch for at least 1s quicker than he ran

if you are too stupid to judge fantastic horse-flesh when you see it, then don't waste my time

haha ventolin you are so pathetic....this is getting sad to read.

Why don't you go convert somebody's height into his 1500m time somewhere else.

rubish

bullshit

short pants

C'mon wejo, ban this tool.

Lol!

You're a bloody fruitcake.

How the hell do you know how old I was in 1981? I was at Uni, so old enough.

I've mentioned Coe as much as Ovett, Aouita, Maree, etc, so what's your problem? Your the one with the fixation.

If you think a 30ft drop on a straight road race is worth tenths compared to a track mark then you really do need help.

I did see Maree's run and yes it was a great performance, but not the "most relentless" 1500m of the decade. If he was that bloody tired then he shouldn't have run then, should he.

Maybe he could have gone 3:28 "if"...., but then Aouita, Coe & Cram could have also, "if....."

It seems to me that any African athletes you like are exempt from criticism and could have done anything if they weren't injured or tired or had a faster 1st lap, etc. This is fine when taken as your opinion, but woe betide anyone who casts their opinions on athletes you don't like.

Your comments from one thread to another are contradictory and your constant trolling of other posters is pathetic.

at uni in '81 ???

bullshit

they let you in when you were 10y ole ?!?!

maree's run was the most relentless run of the decade - no one had gone thru in 2'33/2'47 ever before - by far the hardest effort put in by anyone 1200m

without the berlin fatigue it was worth at least a high-3'28

i didn't say it was the intrinsic fastest 1500/mile - either cram's converted mile or aouita's 52.7 in his 3'29.7 - both likely low-3'28s

i do not include coe because no race of his looked ever better than 3'29-flat no matter how much anyone may play with uneven splits

Ventolin, you don't happen to live in San Francisco do you? I came across this grumpy old guy who was yelling at other people in the park when I was walking my dogs this morning. Reminds me a lot of you (throwing insults at people, discussing in an uncivilized manner, etc).

ventolin wrote:

at uni in '81 ???

bullshit

they let you in when you were 10y ole ?!?!

maree's run was the most relentless run of the decade - no one had gone thru in 2'33/2'47 ever before - by far the hardest effort put in by anyone 1200m

without the berlin fatigue it was worth at least a high-3'28

i didn't say it was the intrinsic fastest 1500/mile - either cram's converted mile or aouita's 52.7 in his 3'29.7 - both likely low-3'28s

i do not include coe because no race of his looked ever better than 3'29-flat no matter how much anyone may play with uneven splits

ventolin wrote:

at uni in '81 ???

bullshit

they let you in when you were 10y ole ?!?!

maree's run was the most relentless run of the decade - no one had gone thru in 2'33/2'47 ever before - by far the hardest effort put in by anyone 1200m

without the berlin fatigue it was worth at least a high-3'28

i didn't say it was the intrinsic fastest 1500/mile - either cram's converted mile or aouita's 52.7 in his 3'29.7 - both likely low-3'28s

i do not include coe because no race of his looked ever better than 3'29-flat no matter how much anyone may play with uneven splits

Blah, blah, blah!

More drivel that is factually inaccurate (he wasn't the first person to go through as fast as this. Bayi went through 1200m in 2:46.4 in 1973, & Coe went through 1100m in 2:33.3 in '81. Neither of them had been paced beyond 800m and neither had Bile taking them up to 300m from home!); conjecture and based on your blinkered opinions that have been shown on more than one occasion in recent weeks to be highly suspect and impractical.

Yes, I was at Kings College, London, reading Early Modern History. What is this with my age you tool!? You don't know who the hell I am, so don't pre-suppose to know me. You're probably some old fart stuck in his ways, with only numbers to keep him company and who doesn't get out much. This is perhaps your only communication with the outside world, so you got to make every comment count and try to create as many emotions as possible.

I'm intrigued to know what age you deem fit for someone to be in 1981 to make a comment about what was happening then, without being abused by a pretentious muppet like yourself. What about the 1970's or '60's? Perhaps you should do a graph and publish the results for us all to see whether or not we're eligible to comment on particular threads!

Ventolin is well known for being rude and aggressive. He doesn't like you if you're young or old. In fact he doesn't really have time for anyone unless they agree with exactly what he spouts. Don't take it personally.

In fact, the more frustrated he gets, when he comes up against people who know how to back up their arguments with stats, the more nasty and derogatory he becomes. So, perhaps in a perverse way, you should be flattered! lol

Lomong - 3:32!

you better find some full details for those races as it smells likes bullshit

the accepted wr list for 1200m en-route is :

2:53.4 ..................... Kichoge Keino (Ken) Mexico City 20 Oct 68 3:34.91

2:52.5 ........................... Jean Wadoux (Fra) Colombes 23 Jul 70 3:34.0

2:52.5 ............................ Filbert Bayi (Tan) Aarhus 24 Jul 73 3:35.6

2:52.2 ........................................ Bayi Helsinki 28 Jul 73 3:34.6

2:52.0* ............... Bayi Stockholm 2 Jul 73 3:52.86 y (2) Jipcho 3:52.17 y

2:50.3 ................................. Bayi Christchurch 2 Feb 74 3:32.16 WR

2:49.5 ....................... Sebastian Coe (GBR) Zürich 15 Aug 79 3:32.03 WR

2:48.3 ........................................ Coe Stockholm 7 Jul 81 3:31.95

2:47.3 .................... Noureddine Morceli (Alg) Rieti 6 Sep 92 3:28.86 WR

2:47.1 ..................................... Morceli Nice 12 Jul 95 3:27.73 WR

* en route in mile

yeah, like bullshit you were there in '81 - your other aliases give you away as a mid-30s aged nobody

see above, a mid-30s aged nobody

here is the proof of you being a mid-aged 30's nobody

nobody woud ask such a question unless they have doubt in their minds that they were old enough in late '70s onwards to give a cognescent, mature opinion - you stupidity tripped you up there boy

moron

don't offer me a kid's eye view of the sport in the late '70s

question for everyone else: is ventolin a genuine poster or some bizarre troll?

Its like slowly watching someone lose their mind.

Ventolin - is this you?

ROFL!!

Brilliant.

I think Ventolin is a LOT older though!

Lagat can run 1:42...this is bullshit!

F***! BALLS! My charts are never wrong....F***!

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