Oh gosh, Stupid, you are so cool. By the way, Stupid, you spell bigot with one g and you do not spell bigoted "biggotted". You ignorant pissant...
Oh gosh, Stupid, you are so cool. By the way, Stupid, you spell bigot with one g and you do not spell bigoted "biggotted". You ignorant pissant...
Scott's mile time is equal to a low 3:30 1500m. That is by no means soft. Unless "soft" to you is top 15 all time material.
And no one cares about the mile? Really?
I agree with Scott 100%. American records should be reserved for those born and raised in America. If Scott moved to Jamaica in his hey day and destroyed all their National records would they truly be Jamaican records or not? How about the natural born Jamaican--let's say hypothetically, the jamaican raised guy ran 3:55 in the mile--he would not be recognized as the national record holder :-) Onli in America, can we f*** with the records. Lagat, will never be considered an American--just as Maree isn't in my book.
mist wrote:
The world seemed to care about the mile when 4 was trying to be broken.
Good point. Also good use of the PAST tense. People also cared about the first sub-10 hundred yard run AT THE TIME, but the distance isn't frequently contested now.
mist wrote:
Scott's mile record is about a 3:30 or so. It would rank him in the top 20 - 30 all performers of all time in the 1500.
A 3:30, is it? Well, Scott only ever managed a 31-high, but let's just pretend that his AR was worth a 3:30...
Scott's mile time is #22, I think, on the world all time list.
A 3:30:00 1500 wouldn't even make the top 60 all time. (Scott's actual 1500 PR isn't even top 80.)
And you're trying to tell me that the mile is widely and seriously contested? It simply is not.
Scott's place on the all-time list for a relative non-event isn't important. What's important is that the actual value of his AR is not nearly world elite, and arguably not even world class. I'd like to think that ARs should be better than top-50 all time, and I think that performances outside of this are soft.
Naturalized Citizen wrote:
you spell bigot with one g and you do not spell bigoted "biggotted". You ignorant pissant...
Sorry. Typo. I can see how important this is to point out.
Try to staying on topic. Or do you have nothing to say about it?
RB1 wrote:
If Scott moved to Jamaica in his hey day and destroyed all their National records would they truly be Jamaican records or not?
If he became a citizen of the nation, OF COURSE they would.
hadd about enough wrote:
HSD wrote:...but it doesn't seem quite fair that someone from Kenya who's run for Kenya all his life can suddenly switch nationalities and start breaking records.
what do you mean, it doesn't seem quite fair?
did lagat not work hard to run fast? did he run on a track that was short? did he not meet all the citizenship requirements?
the "American" record means the fastest time run by an American citizen, plain and simple.
Somehow in this county, even with every kid in grade school learning that one of the things that made the united states different is that we allow those who are not born here to become citizens, some people still have a problem with it.
why the hell do we attach any sort of value to the geographical location you were born and raised? who cares? what i care about is your desire to be american and your willingness to follow the laws that we all follow.
the fact is, you and me and steve scott have a heck of a lot more in common with bernard lagat than we have in common with some fat-ass, beer swilling, NASCAR fan who is a functional illiterate.
put another way: if you were in charge of a club - wouldn't you want the best people in the club? wouldn't you be excited that someone of great stature wanted to join the club, rather than just the guy down the street who smoked meth and beats his kids?
Excellent post!!!
I only got to page 1 so far, but I completely agree with this. Scott was in character unfortunately!!! Read his book!!!
Let's Run pulled Scott's comment out of context. Read the ENTIRE comment as reported on Runnersworld web site. Let's Run should be ashamed of themselves for their little trick of sensationalist journalism.
Let's Run did pull it out of context.
But that does not change the fact that most Americans would rather see Webb with the record than Legat.
Legat is a Kenyan - citizenship after starting world class competeition should not be considered for national records. That should go for any country.
Damn right. Lagat will smash that joke record by over three seconds this season.
okay, just to show that 3:47 is not soft:
Shall we agree that 1:41 ~ 3:26 ~ 7:20 performance wise. Extend this now to 1:43 ~ 3:30 ~ 7:29.
The intervals are 700m in 1:47 (15.3 per 100m) from 800-1500 and 3:59 (15.9 per 100m) from 1500 to 3000.
Let's assume then that the typical rate of change at 1500m for a 3:30 runner is between 15.3 to 15.9 per 100.
The mile is 109.344 meters longer than the 1500. Lets not forget that this extra distance is on the curve ... typically slower (mile starts from a scratch start going into the curve (ugly)). We'll be conservative and only add 0.2 for the curve start. So thats (15.3 to 15.9) divided by 100m times 109.344m + 0.2 = 16.9 to 17.5 seconds.
So for a typical 3:30 1500er, the mile is 16.9 to 17.5 seconds longer. Conclusion, Steve Scott's mile equals 3:30.2 to 3:30.8 in the 1500.
Mile All-time:
1 3:43.13 Hicham El Guerrouj
2 3:43.40 Noah Ngeny
3 3:44.39 Noureddine Morceli
4 3:46.32 Steve Cram
5 3:46.38 Daniel Komen
6 3:46.70 Vénuste Niyongabo
7 3:46.76 Saïd Aouita
8 3:47.28 Bernard Lagat
9 3:47.33 Sebastian Coe
10 3:47.69 Steve Scott
1500 All-time:
1 3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj
2 3:26.34 Bernard Lagat
3 3:27.37 Noureddine Morceli
4 3:28.12 Noah Ngeny
5 3:28.95 Fermín Cacho
6 3:28.98 Mehdi Baala
7 3:29.18 Vénuste Niyongabo
8 3:29.29 William Chirchir
9 3:29.46 Saïd Aouita
10 3:29.46 Daniel Komen
11 3:29.51 Ali Saïdi-Sief
12 3:29.67 Steve Cram
13 3:29.72 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen
14 3:29.77 Sydney Maree
15 3:29.77 Sebastian Coe
16 3:29.91 Laban Rotich
17 3:30.00 Rashid Ramzi
18 3:30.04 Timothy Kiptanui
19 3:30.07 Rui Silva
20 3:30.18 John Kibowen
21 3:30.24 Cornelius Chirchir
22 3:30.33 Ivan Heshko
23 3:30.46 Alex Kipchirchir
24 3:30.55 Abdi Bile
25 3:30.57 Reyes Estévez
26 3:30.58 William Tanui
27 3:30.67 Benjamin Kipkurui
28 3:30.72 Paul Korir
29 3:30.77 Steve Ovett
30 3:30.83 Fouad Chouki
Lagat will run 3:44 this year? I'm going to remember that. Of course when that doesn't occur, and it won't, you won't be around.
Solid post, you saved me the work. Some people are just ignorant.
Settle down and take a nap Nancy. You have been proven wrong.
The amount of cluelessness from people trying to rationalize ethnocentrism makes me sad for people of the world.
Scott may be a nice guy, but he's most definitley a bigot.
Many of us feel sad for you.
i feel like getting lagat on the us is like getting a rod on the yankees. hes winning games so im not complaining. he's wearng a uniform and wants to be a yankee so in my mind he is one.
Who said anything about Lagat's ethnicity? I would feel the same if Coe had come over in the mid 80s and become an American citizen. No one is talking about Lagat's ethnicity, only his nationality, you are the one bringing that up.
You're right: he won't go that fast. By the arithmetic above, he could of, course. But like I said, the mile is not seriosuly or frequently contested by elites at their best -- not nearly as seriously and frequently as the 1500, anyway.
The work and table above in fact proves my point. If we agree to pretend that Scott's time is worth even a 3:30 (which of course he never actually did for some resaon, but let's leave that alone), it still ranks FAR lower as a 1500 than it does on the mile charts.
Mile AR weak. Lagat strong. Mile AR soon to be strong.
RB1 wrote:Lagat, will never be considered an American--just as Maree isn't in my book.
Maree is no longer an American citizen. He's no longer American in anyone's book.
As I stated earlier, Steve Scott's Mile time converts to a time that puts him somewhere around 17th - 30th all time performer in the 1500. Ranking that high would make him world class. Is it his fault that there are guys like El G Morcelli and other that have ran several fast 1500's bumping his time down the list of all time 1500's. His conversion is accurately in the 3:30's. I have read his book but cannot remember how many 1500's he ran but I do know that he ran at least 136 SUB 4 MILES. It is probably save to say the reason he didn't run faster in the 1500 is due to his almost obsessive nature in running fast in the mile. If you cannot understand that than it is not worth any more of my time explaining it.
In summary:
Scott's mile time does in fact convert to a 3:30 which possibly he could have ran faster running only 1500 instead of the mile (we don't have to argue that though).
That 1500 time has only been ran by 30 people or less in the HISTORY of the deep event. That is definetly the sign of a world class time and runner in my opinion.
American mile record = Very strong