If you want to know who the better player is just look at the only stat that matters - what happens when the player gets the ball in their hands?
1) Nothing
2) Turn it over to the other team
3) Create points.
Points created = points scored + (2 x assists)
Divide this by turnovers and you will have your answer.
It turns out that Chris Paul is the greatest player to ever play the game. By A LOT.
Stats Man wrote:
If you want to know who the better player is just look at the only stat that matters - what happens when the player gets the ball in their hands?
1) Nothing
2) Turn it over to the other team
3) Create points.
Points created = points scored + (2 x assists)
Divide this by turnovers and you will have your answer.
It turns out that Chris Paul is the greatest player to ever play the game. By A LOT.
You're right in that Chris Paul is better than LBJ and Jordan using this formula. Their numbers are:
LBJ: 12.54
MJ: 14.89
CP3: 15.68
But using this formula, Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the greatest ever, by way more than a lot.
Kareem: 19.67
If Nike had a contest and the winner got to either play a round of golf with tiger, ride bikes with lance or a game to 21 with either Jordan, Kobe or LeBron...who is most likely to not take it serious? That's what is to love about Jordan, Kobe, Lance and tiger...they wouldn't care they would still crush the poor chump who won the contest, they have a passion to win no matter the game...LeBron I bet would just screw around.
whiteMENcantJUMP wrote:
If Nike had a contest and the winner got to either play a round of golf with tiger, ride bikes with lance or a game to 21 with either Jordan, Kobe or LeBron...who is most likely to not take it serious? That's what is to love about Jordan, Kobe, Lance and tiger...they wouldn't care they would still crush the poor chump who won the contest, they have a passion to win no matter the game...LeBron I bet would just screw around.
I would say LeBron is a better person than all those guys (from what I've been exposed to publicly and personally), and not sure about Kobe but not sure LeBron matches the other guys' intensity. They just had an awe about them EVERY TIME. I used to cheer against Lance every freaking stage, same as Jordan and Tiger...but I turned to cheering for the latter two eventually, just because of how amazing they were (Lance was always too big a jackass).
Josh Hamilton's Addiction wrote:
Stats Man wrote:If you want to know who the better player is just look at the only stat that matters - what happens when the player gets the ball in their hands?
1) Nothing
2) Turn it over to the other team
3) Create points.
Points created = points scored + (2 x assists)
Divide this by turnovers and you will have your answer.
It turns out that Chris Paul is the greatest player to ever play the game. By A LOT.
You're right in that Chris Paul is better than LBJ and Jordan using this formula. Their numbers are:
LBJ: 12.54
MJ: 14.89
CP3: 15.68
But using this formula, Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the greatest ever, by way more than a lot.
Kareem: 19.67
Why would you not subtract steals from turnovers in this calculation?
LBJ: 26.4
Kareem: 36.4
MJ: 106.2
CP3: 1247.6
Of course, you could just use the master statistician's statistic of Win Share per 48 minutes (WS/48):
#1 MJ: .2553
#3 LBJ: .2365
#13 Kareem: .1929
#18 CP3: .1876
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_career_p.htmlCan't really compare players from different eras
Jordan never disappeared in the finals. LeBron has been useless for the vast majority of the current series and he has no jump shot. He has no one on one game and can't play in a half court set. If Boris Diaw can lock u down then that says it all.
lebron is 3-1 in the finals, perhaps even 4-1 if the Spurs win, MJ was 6-6, and a better mid range shooter with an awesome jump shot. Lebron on the other hand isn't a great mid range shooter and has to drive in like a bulldozer and hope for 2 points at the free line, that's your goat.
yfw Danny Green will have as much rings and finals MVPs as Lebron and they'll be more legitimate than Lebron's because it's not in a shortened season.
U crazy wrote:
Jordan never disappeared in the finals. LeBron has been useless for the vast majority of the current series and he has no jump shot. He has no one on one game and can't play in a half court set. If Boris Diaw can lock u down then that says it all.
Exactly.... Jordan was clutch. LeBron has not been clutch for most of his career. Game 6 of this series will tell us a lot. Will LeBron disappear, or show up and take over?
lelchoke james wrote:
.... because it's not in a shortened season.
Do you people even watch basketball? Is this a joke statement?
Comes down to this: Game 7, down one. Who do you pick to take the last shot? Jordan or Lebron?
atownrunnin wrote:
Comes down to this: Game 7, down one. Who do you pick to take the last shot? Jordan or Lebron?
Why does it come down to that? Being clutch doesn't make you the best player
Jordan never disappeared from a game or ceased to be the most dominant player for a minute, whereas Lebron, supremely unselfish, often disappears and he can be stopped, or stop himself, because he does not constantly demand the ball and attention like Jordan. Jordan also averaged over 50 percent from the field for his career from the 2 guard position, despite missing a couple seasons in his prime to "baseball," and he scored over 30 ppg many times while being the best defender in the league, winning 72 games in one season, and winning six titles in six finals appearances. And when you compare the stats of retired players to mid-career guys you always slant things toward the mid-career guys because they haven't yet experienced their inevitable statistical decline.
Jordan won titles by passing the ball to Paxton and Kerr. He was fortunate they made shots. How quickly people forget.
they sheared the sheep wrote:
Jordan won titles by passing the ball to Paxton and Kerr. He was fortunate they made shots. How quickly people forget.
You mean the Suns series, where these were Jordan's AVERAGES:
41.0 PPG (NBA Record)
8.5 RPG
6.3 APG
1.7 SPG
Also, they won this series in 6 games. So even if Paxton missed, they had another game. Paxton's three was actually the ONLY points for the Bulls in the ENTIRE 4TH QUARTER that were NOT scored by Jordan.
Or the Jazz series, where these were Jordan's AVERAGES:
32.3 PPG
7.0 RPG
6.0 APG
1.2 SPG
They also won this series is 6 games. Jordan had 39 points and 11 rebounds in the clinching game.
People are talking about the greatness of Jordan was partly due to the increadible marketing machine thathe was. I remember so many of my friends and I were disgusted at all the commercial hype surrounding MJ. It was pure over load. But, no way did I link his athletic greatness with the hype. If any thing the hype was a distractor.
I've compared the stats between MJ and LbJ. MJ wins. But the stats dont tell the whole story, and this is where MJ glows when compared with LbJ. Game 5, LbJ put up numbers, but honestly was not a real factor down the stretch, did not take over the game. If MJ was playing in that game, he would have been a force, someone the whole arena was focused on, every play.
Wow! Those of you dissing Jordan either didn't see him play or really have no idea what you're talking about.
Commercial hype being THE reason people think he's the greatest? Ummm....NO! He's probably the only athlete ever who was worthy of such hype. He was absolutely dominant during most of his career. He never took a second off in a game as opposed to Lebron. His Bulls teams were blessed with some other decent players, but no NBA player in the history of the league benefited more from a superstar teammate than did Pippen. Every player on those Bulls teams were better (and more wide open) because of Jordan.
Determination, intensity, hatred of losing...Jordan was the KING of all that with talent to match.
Michael Jordan is the best basketball player to ever walk the Earth.
We are on the same page here. What Im saying, is that some people in earlier posts are saying Jordans greatness was due, in part to marketing hype. I saw the hype as hype. He is still the greatest ever. (and dont underestimate the hand checking rule change and change in calling rules of verticality!)
___________________________________________________________
Commercial hype being THE reason people think he's the greatest? Ummm....NO!
Not expressing an opinion. Here are some facts.
Best Single Season - Combined Points-Assists-Rebounds
MJ (88-89): 32.5/8.0/8.0, 48.5 (total), also shot 54% from the field!
LBJ (07-08): 30.0/7.2/7.9, 45.1 (total)
NBA Finals wins
MJ: 6 wins in 15 years, 40%
LBJ: 1 win in 9 years, 11%
Top Players of Era
MJ: Bird, Magic, Barkley, Thomas, Malone, Drexler, Wilkins, Stockton, Olajuwon, Ewing
LeBron: Kobe, Nowitzki, Durant, Wade
Amen. I like to think I am reasonably open-minded. I can understand why smart people of goodwill can hold different political beliefs, different religions (or rejection of same), even different standards of beauty. But I am stunned that anyone who considers themselves any sort of basketball fan could argue in good faith that LBJ is in the same conversation as MJ.
Flagpole wrote:
Wow! Those of you dissing Jordan either didn't see him play or really have no idea what you're talking about.
Commercial hype being THE reason people think he's the greatest? Ummm....NO! He's probably the only athlete ever who was worthy of such hype. He was absolutely dominant during most of his career. He never took a second off in a game as opposed to Lebron. His Bulls teams were blessed with some other decent players, but no NBA player in the history of the league benefited more from a superstar teammate than did Pippen. Every player on those Bulls teams were better (and more wide open) because of Jordan.
Determination, intensity, hatred of losing...Jordan was the KING of all that with talent to match.
Michael Jordan is the best basketball player to ever walk the Earth.