D3 mideast Regionals...

If you compare this years Dickinson to Haverford conference race to last years, it looks like Haverford has dropped. Does anyone know what the race was like? I also haven't seen any evidence that CMU is far behind Dickinson at least when Bussiere (sp) is running well.

Dickinson did look good at conferences as far as I saw, but they're only as strong as their top 5 and the score was deceptive. They drop off a good bit after #5, probably because the coach has a history of running people into the ground. If the Go Hard Big Dick Boys are all on at regionals, they'll win in a tight race with Allegheny. If any one of them drops back, they'll still qualify for nats but won't win regionals. It would have to be a total disaster for them not to qualify.

I'm looking at Dickinson, Allegheny, Haverford, CMU, and Elizabethtown to be in the top 5 with the Mideast getting all five in for the big show.

I think the biggest surprise at any conference meet in the Mideast was the Etown women. Somehow that coach finds a way to win when it counts. His women will do anything for him.

Johns Hopkins should cruise at regionals. After that it's a crap shoot. Dickinson's women did a little better this year than most expected. And they could be so much better if the coach didn't scare two national qualifiers away from this years team. Think about what it takes to have two national qualifiers sitting home not wanting to be a part of a program. But, I think Dickinson will have enough to grab that second spot unless Etown is able to upset them, and that's possible. But I don't think the mideast is strong enough to get more than 3 teams in. And getting 3 might be a gift. If we do get more, it shows how weak the country is. This might be the first year when the South gets ahead of us. And we shouldn't be proud of that.

Etown women ran amazing at MACs. A great win considering they were behind both Messiah and Misericordia at Paul Short. However, they will not beat Dickinson women.

The thing that's scary if you're Dickinson is you know you ran better at Centennials than in the regional last year. If that happens again they could wind up 3rd or 4th instead of winning. Having said that, I think they are more likely to win than be 3rd. 16 points in the Centennial meet is no fluke, I don't care where the packs ran. CMU will not beat them and E'town is too young. They have been consistently good all year and those guys are going to perform, no matter what you think of the coach!

Who are the 2 women at Dickinson that didn't run because of the coach? I still think they are a lock for 2nd. Etown women are coming on, but many teams have a shot at 3rd. CMU, Grove City and Haverford certainly do.

The men will get five teams for sure. The women may not get three if the 3rd team isn't reasonably close to Dickinson.

GoatMilkForBreakfast wrote:Dickinson's women did a little better this year than most expected. And they could be so much better if the coach didn't scare two national qualifiers away from this years team. Think about what it takes to have two national qualifiers sitting home not wanting to be a part of a program.

To pin that on the coach is ridiculous. The Haverford men have two former studs that are now out of the sport (one a "national qualifier") and if you claimed that Donnelly "scared them away" you would get deservedly pilloried. Same thing applies here.

GoatMilkForBreakfast wrote:

I think the biggest surprise at any conference meet in the Mideast was the Etown women. Somehow that coach finds a way to win when it counts. His women will do anything for him.

Not really a surprise at all. The etown women have been doing this for years - and for three different coaches over the past 4 years. Falk has no secret training system and neither did Straub or Dager - the women just work hard and know there is no secret workout or easy way to success. They run well at the end of the season - they know the Lebanon Valley Invite doesn't mean $hit - and neither do any other meets until MACs and Regionals. Pretty sure they have the second-highest average regional finish since 2004 on the women's side (behind Dickinson).

2004 - 3rd in Mideast / 19th in Nation

2005 - 3rd in Mideast

2006 - 4th in Mideast / 31st in Nation

2007 - 4th in Mideast / 23rd (tie) in Nation

2008 - 4th in Mideast

Not sure what the poster has against Dickinson or their coach, but you can not question their dominance on the womens' side over the past decade - Coach Nichter does a great job there with the women and also more recently with the men. Good runners come and go in just about every program every year.

I don't see why Coach Nichter would be to blame for two women sitting home. If those two females don't fit in with the program then they sit where they deserve to be. If they are good enough to run for Dickinson and be national level athletes then they could have gone to another school. Nichter's programs are very strong, he doesn't need excess baggage screwing things up for him.

Anyone else impressed by Emily Lipman's win at the centennial conference meet? She beat some very good Hopkins runners, and it seems should be in the mix for the win at regionals and an all-american award at nationals.

yes!

humdinger wrote:

Anyone else impressed by Emily Lipman's win at the centennial conference meet? She beat some very good Hopkins runners, and it seems should be in the mix for the win at regionals and an all-american award at nationals.

Folks, really? Let's look at the facts as we all know that everything posted here is always right and that all people love you! So I will not tell a lie.

Some facts are

Etown women = not ranked regionally during the mid-season. Maybe a surprise to win conference from that perspective, but Falk, just like he did last year and the year before at Osh Kosh, always has his team running strong in late October and into November. So from that perspective, maybe not a surprise. And, yes, it won't be a surprise when they do well at regionals.

Dickinson women = is the women's team of the past decade. They're not the same team that finished in 6th place at nationals several times in recent years, and will drop to something like #20 or #25 or #30 ... big whoop! Yes, they do have two seniors not running that ran at past nationals. And, yes, not everyone has loved the coach in the past. I'm sure he has an occassional clash with people like athletes, the AD, his neighbor, his barber, his dog, etc. (lol, I really don't know if he has a dog or not, and I bet he adores his AD, neighbor, and barber; isn't that right, Don).

Haverford men = is the men's team of the past 20 years. They're probably as good this year as they were when they were dominating the Centennials, but now they have competition. I'm sure Donnelly's squad will make us proud when they line up at regionals. Yes, some do drop out, for different reasons. Yes, Tom doesn't use the same barber as Don. And, yes, Tom and Don do not have the same neighbors, neither does Falk.

Dickinson men = after years of chasing Haverford they have had their number for the past 2 seasons. Not that they've been bad in the past, it's just that they were chasing Haverford. So, it's more than "more recently" that there's a great job going on there. They'll be battling at regionals for the championship.

So what do we learn from all of this.

First, we all should wonder what barber Falk uses.

Second, it will be a great regional race.

See everyone on the starting line.

Message:

I don't see why Coach Nichter would be to blame for two women sitting home. If those two females don't fit in with the program then they sit where they deserve to be. If they are good enough to run for Dickinson and be national level athletes then they could have gone to another school. Nichter's programs are very strong, he doesn't need excess baggage screwing things up for him.

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Not the coaches? If you don't know, shut up! These two girls are not excess baggage. They are good people. Since you don't know them, stop your crap by calling them things like that. For all you know, maybe it is because of a coach. Maybe not. Maybe they did fit in, but couldn't run for other reasons that isn't their fault or the coach's fault. That's between those girls and the coach, and all parties need to have their privacy respected. If you don't know, shut up!

Either way, no need to play the what if game since they are, in fact, not running this season.

RedDevil: No need to blow up on someone speculating about what happened to two national caliber athletes. They're not some mid pack runners so it is only natural people to wonder why they aren't running. I don't think anyone was disrespecting privacy either because no one was really throwing around any specific allegations.

Personally, I'm really looking forward to the men's team race and the women's individual race. Dickinson soundly beat Haverford men in a dual meet setting. I think it will be a little different at the Regional meet. Having watched E-town men last week they are looking really good and I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull up on the top 4 teams if they can put a good one together.

RedDevil wrote:

Message:

Not the coaches? If you don't know, shut up! These two girls are not excess baggage. They are good people. Since you don't know them, stop your crap by calling them things like that. For all you know, maybe it is because of a coach. Maybe not. Maybe they did fit in, but couldn't run for other reasons that isn't their fault or the coach's fault. That's between those girls and the coach, and all parties need to have their privacy respected. If you don't know, shut up!

seems that it is somebody's time of the month...

Can someone from Dickinson respond please and set the record straight about why the two women are not running? Then we can move past this.

On the surface it does sound fishy to have two runners with past nationals experience deciding not to run. But, I've seen many different scenarios in the past ranging from injuries to differences with the coach to lack of time due to academic stress. Maybe they just lost interest in the sport and needed a break too.

ObservingReporting wrote:

Either way, no need to play the what if game since they are, in fact, not running this season.

RedDevil: No need to blow up on someone speculating about what happened to two national caliber athletes. They're not some mid pack runners so it is only natural people to wonder why they aren't running. I don't think anyone was disrespecting privacy either because no one was really throwing around any specific allegations.

Personally, I'm really looking forward to the men's team race and the women's individual race. Dickinson soundly beat Haverford men in a dual meet setting. I think it will be a little different at the Regional meet. Having watched E-town men last week they are looking really good and I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull up on the top 4 teams if they can put a good one together.

i'm thinking the original post on this topic of missing "national-qualifying" runners was a bit of an exagerration. i don't have the results in front of me, but when I was looking at last year's regional results, Dickinson are not missing any of their top underclasswomen from last year's team. They might be missing someone who ran in the 5-7 range, but the goatmilk guy makes it sound like they had All-Americans just walking away from the program. like i said, I am just going from memery, but I don't think that is the case.

yes man, i have a friend on the team, and I asked about the one girl back at our first meet with them since i knew she'd be one of their top runners. her response was "well, um" didn't want to talk about the situation

she probably would help them. i'm not saying shes an all american.

not sure about the other.

Quite frankly, the one girl would be a #5 at best and the other could have been among the top of the team but both lost the desire to run/train at a high level. Hardly the coaches fault, some people find other interests in college. Why is everyone getting so uptight about this weak women's region? The men's race is where its at.

Every year teams change, and the Dickinson women’s team 2009 is a lot different from last year’s team and the 15 years previous to that. This year, even more than last, the Dickinson women’s team has continued to turn faces after coming into a season not expected to do well at all. Even though they lost two girls due to unexpected circumstances, they were still able to prove themselves. It must be difficult to follow 11 years of excellence on the women’s team, having two runners on a completely different level leading the team. Both last year and this year, Don Nichter has done a great job coaching these teams, despite being seen as an underdog. Although Dickinson was expected to come in second, they put up a good fight against the nationally #2 ranked blue jays.

Every team has their setbacks, and although losing two runners was a hit to Dickinson’s team this year, there are no hard feelings between athlete and coach. The decision was mutual by both parties. The team that has come together this year is comprised of runners who are not necessarily most talented, but definitely hard working and motivated. All of the women on the 2009 Dickinson women’s team have supported each other this whole season and are excited for the top 7, who are going to continue to represent this team well at the regional and national level. Despite what others may say (about being overshadowed by the men’s team), the women’s team is very supportive of their male teammates and are just as excited for their continued success as they are for their own.

Great job so far, Dickinson Women and good luck at the regional and national levels. Go Hard Big Dick!

Kinda wish we didn't have to wait another week for the regional meet, but guess that gives us more time to talk about it.

My predictions

Men - Allegheny, Dickinson, Carnegie Mellon, Haverford, Hopkins, Etown, Susquehanna.

Women - Hopkins, Dickinson, Haverford, Grove City, Etown, Gettysburg, Messiah

Men get 5 teams for sure. Hopkins wasn't too far off of Haverford at conferneces, but Etown is tough.

Women will still get 3 teams minimum, maybe 4. South still stucks, and west won't get more than 3. Will open up some spots there.

Who is winning the men's race though?

Eric Reichert!