I guess it's a good thing that nobody has said that then, isn't it?Chicago marathon people have essentially been saying this.
I guess it's a good thing that nobody has said that then, isn't it?Chicago marathon people have essentially been saying this.
They have been saying they didn't anticipate people using 7 cups of water per stop JUST TO POUR ON THEMSELVES not to mention what they drank. You CANNOT expect people to use that much water. They aren't saying they didn't expect people to use ANY water on their heads they can't expect people to use the copius amounts that they ended up using. Like Third Marathon said there is no reason for people to be using so much water to pour on themselves.
MarathonMind wrote:
I guess it's a good thing that nobody has said that then, isn't it?Chicago marathon people have essentially been saying this.
MarathonMind wrote:
I guess it's a good thing that nobody has said that then, isn't it?Chicago marathon people have essentially been saying this.
No they have not "essentially" been saying. They have not literally been saying it either.
But it sure is easier to shoot down THAT argument that nobody made instead of than the actual one, isn't it?
MarathonMind wrote:
I guess it's a good thing that nobody has said that then, isn't it?Chicago marathon people have essentially been saying this.
Where have "they" been saying this, post a link.
And again I ask, did you run this race?
I'm sorry. How else I am supposed to interpret this:
“The water stations were designed for (drinking),” Mr. Pinkowski said. But some runners “were grabbing five, six, seven cups” and pouring water on themselves around the course’s 15 water stations, which marathon organizers “didn’t plan for,” he said.
OK, that's one.
Now, did you run the race?
They just blew the Olys bid. The fact Atlanta blew the security so bad it was the worst Olys since Munich doesn't help the Chicago bid. Now this. You can forget the Olys now thats for sure.
NO
Just because there were incidents at both Munich and Atlanta doesn't mean they had the worst security.
MarathonMind wrote:
I'm sorry. How else I am supposed to interpret this:
“The water stations were designed for (drinking),” Mr. Pinkowski said. But some runners “were grabbing five, six, seven cups” and pouring water on themselves around the course’s 15 water stations, which marathon organizers “didn’t plan for,” he said.
You are supposed to interpret it to mean that they did not anticipate runners dropping FIVE, SIX, SEVEN cups of water on their heads apiece. That is nothing like your straw man of
"oh my... who could have imagined runners would dump water on their heads"
But of course, arguing against the ridiculous statement YOU made up is so much easier.
The poster "Ft Worth" already told you this.
MarathonMind wrote:
NO
OK, so then what the hell is your obsession with this race?
Are you like, the Winston Wolf of marathons where you offer to fix problems with your 20/20 hindsight?
You have no idea of what went into the pre race planning, you weren't there to witness anything first hand or what they were dealing with on race day but you are now the self appointed advocate of those who were there?
Yes it does.
Except Pinkowski said “The water stations were designed for (drinking),”. Lacking a qualifier such as "primarily", excuse me if it sounds as if the water was exclusively for consumption.
Also, are there runners who have said that they in fact used that many cups of water solely for dousing? Is this what most runners did?
Just because there were incidents at both Munich and Atlanta doesn't mean they had the worst security.
Just because Atlanta bungled the security in 1996, and Chicago bungled the marathon in 2007, doesn't mean hope for Chicago is gone. The bid is probably lost though I must say ;-(
MarathonMind wrote:
Except Pinkowski said “The water stations were designed for (drinking),”. Lacking a qualifier such as "primarily", excuse me if it sounds as if the water was exclusively for consumption.
The water stations WERE designed for drinking. What of it? This once again is NOTHING like your ridiculous quote. Nobody was "essentially" saying it and nobody was "literally" saying it.
You are grasping at straws
Wow, this thread is still going. Here are a couple more thoughts.
Why did the race organizers stick with their 15 water stations when they had at least 10 days to add more? This is without hindsight and from experience only, but when I did a half marathon in Florida, in the winter time, there were 10 aid stations. They know what hot weather can do to the masses. Midwesterners don't? And if they didn't they should have called up their buddies in Miami or Maui.
There is a dichotomy between the skill set required to sign up world class athletes and putting on a race for the masses. One skill set does not complement the other.
The race directors were very clearly negligent in deploying enough fluids. They were not grossly negligent though because they tried, failed miserably, but they tried.
Runners are negligent by their natures so you can't blame them for running themselves into the ground. Joggers (the 4 plus hour crowd) are just ignorant of the dangers of running for so long in high temps. So if you recruit them to be in your race you need to take care of them.
The reason Boston can pull off an 86 degree marathon is because the runners are more experienced and fitter. There are a whole lot of out of shape people "running" a marathon when you've got a start list of 35,000.
People who sign up for a marathon are actively seeking a whole lot of pain and suffering. Well they got their monies worth this time.
So in the end, no harm, no foul. Everyone needs to learn from this experience. If you're a 4 plus hour marathoner, pack your own water on a hot day and if you are a race director - pull your head out of your ass.
Jefe in the CO wrote:
Why did the race organizers stick with their 15 water stations when they had at least 10 days to add more?
I wouldn't call this an additional 'new thought'. The issue has already been raised in this thread about just HOW you would go about adding extra water stations (think manpower) at the late time. 15 water stations means one every less than two miles. Wouldn't you rather they added more resources to the existing stations than trying to coordinate entirely new station teams?
There is a dichotomy between the skill set required to sign up world class athletes and putting on a race for the masses. One skill set does not complement the other.
One could also say there is a dichotomy between the skill set required to run a marathon or talk about a marathon and actually understanding the logistics behind putting on a marathon. Talk about the HOW, now just the WHAT.
Runners are negligent by their natures so you can't blame them for running themselves into the ground.
Now that statement is so silly it doesn't even need a rebuttal!
Joggers (the 4 plus hour crowd) are just ignorant of the dangers of running for so long in high temps.
You mean Jogger's World has NEVER had ANY articles on running in the heat? Who is it that is selling the 4 plus hour crowd all those buffet belts that get routinely made fun of on the board?
No I suppose I wouldn't call adding extra stations a new thought but I would surmise that it would be substantially easier to deliver water to the masses if they had 25 stations. Take your existing volunteers and split them up over 25 stations versus 15. Then all you need are tables and cups and a marginal increase in volunteers. More effecient that way. Make some of the water stations self service.The burden is on the race director, who is taking the multitudes money, to provide for his runners during the race. I was alluding to a possible short coming of the race that maybe too much money and effort was put into assembling elites and not enough into putting up more water stations. If you're going to cap your entries at 45,000 then you damn well better be world class logistics firm. I would prefer that these major marathons follow Boston's lead but somebody has got to subsidize the appearance fees and prize money and those somebodies are Joe and Jill Jogger. My whole point is, if you're gonna take their money, then take care of them.My negligent runner theory is based on experience. When I race I don't think about anything else but racing. I am relying on the race director to provide an enviroment so that all I have to do is show up ready to put forth maximum effort. I have experienced heat exhaustion on numerous occasions, mostly because I tried to run fast when the conditions precluded it. In all cases this was my own fault and not the fault of lack of fluids. I would have been pissed if I got heat exhaustion because the race director cut back on water stations.When it comes to heat exhaustion there is a huge difference between reading about it and experiencing it. Joggers' World could focus a whole years worth of articles (they practically do anyway) and it would not make the masses anymore prepared for the reality of it.
Asterix wrote:
I wouldn't call this an additional 'new thought'. The issue has already been raised in this thread about just HOW you would go about adding extra water stations (think manpower) at the late time. 15 water stations means one every less than two miles. Wouldn't you rather they added more resources to the existing stations than trying to coordinate entirely new station teams?
One could also say there is a dichotomy between the skill set required to run a marathon or talk about a marathon and actually understanding the logistics behind putting on a marathon. Talk about the HOW, now just the WHAT.
Now that statement is so silly it doesn't even need a rebuttal!
You mean Jogger's World has NEVER had ANY articles on running in the heat? Who is it that is selling the 4 plus hour crowd all those buffet belts that get routinely made fun of on the board?
Head hurting wrote:You must be f***ing nuts. Could you imagine what those bacteria vats would be like after a couple hours?
Lets see, extreme heat and humidity warming the water and thousand of sweaty runners sticking their hands in the vat. The same hands that were pissing on trees and taking dumps in porta potties and picking their snot before and during the race.
Then the next day you would be whining about the filthy water and why they didn't have fresh water for everyone.
Of all the stupid shit I've seen posted in this thread, yours is a real prize winner.
Take another stab of solving the issues with your 20/20 hindsight you whiner.
You're right, silly me. There was no possible way for the race organisers to get enough water on the course. It's totally the participants fault and the race organisers are totally without fault for what occurred. Is that better?
Then tell me this HHH if you were the race director, would you prepare for people using 7 cups of water per stop just to dump on their head? I think of myself as somewhat intelligent and there's no way that you prepare for that i don't care hot it is.
And answer this...HOW do you decide HOW MUCH WATER IS ENOUGH??? There's no possible way to know how much. You can't just provide an infinite amount of water you have to pick a certain amount and how do you possibly come up with that number? They added more water to the course but how in the world was he supposed to know how much people would use and that it wouldnt be enough?
A lot of people are doing a lot of talking on here and not once have i heard how much water there should have been. "Provide enough water for everyone" well how much is that? You make it sound like its common sense. You act like they purposely decided not to provide enough water, when its not even possible to predict how much will be enough.
What we all need to do is to NOT BLAME ANYONE. Its a race, it didn't go the way it was supposed to, things like this happen, it will do no good to point fingers so dont get on the director for trying and coming up short.