A question for old timers.

Ruth, time for my monthly prod.

Tom

;)

I still recall a magazine article from the '70s - but I forget which one - that described Daws. Two great stories come to mind:

(1) One year at Boston when it was really hot, he knocked on a door but the residents were down at the square for the race. Ron opened the door, went in, went upstairs, ran a cold tub, immersed himself and cooled off, let out the tub and dripped down the stairs and to the start.

(2) On a hot summer Sunday in Minneapolis, he and a buddy were doing a 30 miler and got desperately thirsty but everything was closed - it was very early. So... they stopped at a car parked in the shade - and licked the dew off. Now THAT is thirsty. It may be apocryphal but it's a great story. Anyone know if it is true? Anyone else recall the article?

SouthernSun: story #1 I've never heard before, but could be true. Story #2 I've heard (from Ron) on many a long run. He justified it by saying it was a NEW car! Ron's stories got us through a lot of long runs. Sometimes we would let him tell us a story that we already heard, just because he was such a good story-teller and it made those 25 mile runs go a lot faster! (I think that the stories you mentioned appeared in either Playboy or Esquire magazines in the 1970s, and I believe were written by John Medelman (sp?) STEVE

Bump.

Steve,

Yup, Ron and the licking-dew-off-a-car-during-a-hot-30-miler was in an old Playboy article by John Medleman. (You know you're hard core - runner, that is - when you save Playboy articles instead of photos). But no mention of the Boston/tub story. So I dug through a bunch of old articles - and still didn't find it. But I did find an old Runners World article from 10/88, "Olympic Gallery" which is comprised of some really nice watercolors Daws did of Zatopek, Bikila, Viren, Snell and Nurmi with a short commentary by him. Do you have it? If not, and would like it, let me know. I like it but it sits in a drawer - and might mean more to you since you knew him well. And... I found a 9/85 Running Times article by David Kayser: "The Summer of '75" that has a couple of photos of you. I could send that too.

Geoff Pietsch

Geoff, the car-licking story is great...younger runners must understand that we didn't use/have water bottle holders in the "old days" and had to be creative regarding water.(Licking water off of a new Volvo might be a little over the top, though!) On long runs , we knew where we could get water (gas stations mostly), but Ron would go right up into someone's yard in the summer, turn on the outside faucet and drink away. I THINK we turned it off when we were done. That's why I think the first story you mentioned about the bath tub before Boston is plausible; Ron was not shy about the necessities of running in warm weather. I remember that he was a little skeptical of gatorade and ERG,etc. and thought plain old water was the best. Thanks for your offer for the old Runners World and Times; however, I have both of those. (Dave Kayser is an old running buddy from Wisconsin.) Actually, Ron and I made prints from his original watercolors to possibly sell,before Ron's untimely death. Of course, we never got around to it, but I have a nice set of the prints all framed. He also did a fantastic painting of a winter scene in Minneapolis in the 1930s. Incredible detail; when I had it framed, there must have been a dozen people commenting on it. I think Ron could have made some money as a painter, he really was talented. Also,he loved to write about training, etc., but said that writing was much harder than training for a marathon.(Probably because he was the ultimate procrastinator and was always trying catch up with the publishing deadlines!!) STEVE

Bump.

I guess I qualify as an old timer- althought I do not see it that way. I have been running for quite a while. This summer I will try to return to run in my first 3 mile race (it is now a 5k). It was on the 4th of July 1957- I was eight. Since then I have run races of all distances and never even thought of quitting. Back in the 60's & 70's we never heard the term "burn out" in regards to running. I never heard the term "burn out" from the likes of Browning Ross, Paul Reese (No Cal), Joe Klinerman- (NY), Bob Campbell- (MA), Kurt Steiner- (NY), George Sheenen- NJ), John Brennen- (So Cal), so this is a recent term. When I was in England several years ago I met a guy that told me of several clubs. They are all for males and only the older ones have a chance to qualify. They have a 400 club- run your age. In my case it is a :58 400-very do able (not when you are 30-40); Then there is the mile club. Once again run your age. I get 5:00 for being 50 and then :06 for every year. So I get 5:48 (once again very do able). The 10 mile is 58:00 (hard part here is finding a 10 mile race that is not up a mountain). As I stated these are out of the reach for most younger men (I do not see many 28 year olds running :28@ 400; 2:48@ mile; & 28:00 10 miler). Also women are not as likely to achieve these times. These type of events will allow everyone to compete and compare. I plan to run and race forever- I will never again hit any pr's but so what my time spent on the trails are great. I never trained fast (well after high school) and can honestly say that I can not remember not wanting to run even once - not that I have run every day, but the desire was/is there. Nice positive thread.

Bump

Not a competitive runner, even in my youth.

But I started running in 1979, and for 27 years I averaged 10 miles per run, 3 times per week. Raced about a dozen races per year from 1995 to 2001, since then run mainly for fun.

I was beginning to think I was indestructible, until I tore cartilage in my knee playing volleyball in Summer 2005.

Was able to return to running after a lot of rehab, using forefoot striking, which didn't make the knees hurt.

In 2006 rebuilt from 0 to 20 miles per week.

End of 2006 got a femoral neck stress reaction in the lesser trochanter.

I am still sitting out that one, and wondering to what extent I will be running in the future.

I have had to totally regroup my athletic pursuits.

Right now I am only biking 2 X 80 min per week and swimming 1 or 2 X 60 min per week.

Since forefoot striking was when the sfx occurred, and that was my only option for running pain-free, I am not sure where I am headed approaching age 50.

Hopefully, my over-50 years will involve lots of running, but it depends on recovery.

Following up on the 400 club idea you mentioned (below) which seems a bit uneven - a 58 400 seems far tougher, at 58, than a 5:48 mile - here's an alternative exercise challenge I came up with. When you can't run, as I can't, with a hip replacement, other things substitute. I always ran with the kids I coached. Like Percy Cerutty with Herb Elliot, I didn't want to ask them to work harder than I was willing to work. So, what to do when I couldn't run. Came up with this idea: On my 60th birthday - which for me fell conveniently in fall XC season - I did 60 push-ups. The next year I did 59. And so on. For every year over 60 you can do one less. And, if you're under 60, do one more than 60 for every year under. I'm due for 50 of them next September....

>>>>When you can't run, as I can't, with a hip replacement, other things substitute. I always ran with the kids<<<

========================================================

Was it a complete hip replacement? sorry to hear about this!

I know someone here in Victoria who underwent one Dec. 15th. last year. He has apparently been rehabbing and report is he's planning to be running some again by the Summer. He used to be a real bearcat of a trainer & was one of those 'new age' master competitors who, on discovering running after he was done with his hockey & rugby career. Between his 40th. & his 50th. b-days he raced everything from the 100 metres to the 100 miles, did the Western States one time plus numerous other ultras. His hip replacement was one way for him to celebrate his 60th.

There again I'm not sure if his was a complete one or partial replacement.

He did have an awesome competitive running career & is still in the thick of it with race organization & club coaching!

no-name: get real familiar with your bike; even if you can run ( I hope so ), you may want to consider alternating running with a non-pounding activity like cycling, rollerblading, swimming..... Like most runners, I would prefer to run as my only workout, but now I'm convinced that running 4-5/week is the optimal amount. Try to run on dirt, grass other softer surfaces, too. I just turned sixty, have had a long running career, and want to run (not race!) for the next decade or longer. Hope it works out for you! STEVE

no-name survivor wrote:

Hopefully, my over-50 years will involve lots of running, but it depends on recovery.

Is this the Steve Hoag who was a 2:11 marathoner in the early to mid 70s?

Good advice, thanks. Didn't expect any response, actually.

Here's to you, a half-decent synopsis of your records from a web interview:

http://runningminnesota.blogspot.com/2007/01/steve-hoag.html

Pretty incredible.

I have always believed in rest days, for 27 years, even when racing, I had always run 3X per week with 4 cross-training days.

But recently when I got the sfx it was with 3X per week running, plus 3 days elliptical, plus about 20 minutes before runs of intense Pose method hopping drills.

What probably did it was overuse in combination with a bad biomechanics that I have not yet mastered --- it's hard to unlearn old patterns from 27 years and be really efficient.

***

Looking forward to LOTS of biking all summer. Hip sfx's vary from 4 months to 11 months, depending on how well you stay off it. Maybe a few short runs in the fall, low, low mileage only. It's all about cumulative pounding with sfx's.

The unevenness of soft trails bothers my knee more than the pounding. However, the hips would love the softer ground, I'm sure.

great article.

saw Pre run in 1970 at NCAA wrote:

Yeah, I also saw him run there. I was close by afterwards when the press were intervewing him and I then got his autograph. The next year I got some home movies of him in Eugene and Berkley. Good memories.

did you notice his bloody racing spike due to his cut foot at Des Moines?

Bump.