It’s getting scary watching President Biden try to speak without a teleprompter. No wonder they kept him hidden in his basement.
It’s getting scary watching President Biden try to speak without a teleprompter. No wonder they kept him hidden in his basement.
^^^^^
Feel the hurt and pain.
Delicious tears for Trump.
it would be sad if he was not so corrupt wrote:
It’s getting scary watching President Biden try to speak without a teleprompter. No wonder they kept him hidden in his basement.
Yeah, you would think maybe even glasses or contacts would help him?!?!? But it's way worse when he has to think on his own and speak. This really needs to be looked in to. It's almost like elder abuse.
Dr. Racket wrote:
2) You're either trolling at this poin,t or truly a massive EV stan.
No way is this not a troll. No one is that enthusiastic about EVs to continue this conversation for this long.
joed|rt wrote:
You can say all you want about all the things one will have to maintain on an ICE vs an EV. At about 100,000 miles on an EV you will likely have to replace the batteries, which will run you $10k or so.
Thank you for the opportunity to dispel this common myth. A Tesla battery is designed to last 300,000 to 500,000 miles. The warranty is for 8 years or 150,000 miles. That's a whole lot better than you will get for a power train in a typical gas car.
Hyandai has so much confidence in its batteries that they give a lifetime warranty for as long as you own the car.
joed|rt wrote:I have a Ford F-150 with over 200,000 miles on it and a Subaru Outback with over 200,000 miles on it and the only thing I have had to do with either is tires, brakes, batteries (that cost about $100) and oil changes.
Congratulations. I've never been that lucky.
joed|rt wrote: I can go on 600 mile trips with either and make one stop each way that takes 10 minutes to fill the tank, use the restroom and grab a bite to eat. Considering many of those trips are business related, the time difference and availability of charging (going through the mountains, rural Colorado and rural New Mexico, charging availability is severely limited), there is no way a full EV is superior (especially in the winter months when the battery performance drops off a cliff).
As I've already stated, long trips are the one advantage that gas cars still have. In every other way, EVs are superior.
joed|rt wrote: Additionally, EVs with long range batteries weigh considerably more than comparable ICE vehicles (a model S weighs as much as most SUVs), so the tires will cost more, the suspension will cost more, you will still have fluids to maintain in the transmission, there are still chassis parts that require regular lubrication and there are still hydraulics and brakes to maintain (though the pads should last longer). Not to mention all of those new controls and sensors they are putting on the car that will have to be cleaned and maintained.
I got just over 60,000 miles out of my factory tires on the Bolt EV, which is no different than most gas cars. Tesla does a reputation for shorter tire life though, so you might have a point if you are talking about a Tesla.
As for lubrication and sensors, I haven't required any maintenance of that in my first 100,000 miles in the Bolt EV and it is not part of the scheduled maintenance either.
joed|rt wrote:
A plug in hybrid is far more suitable for most people as the smaller battery is sufficient for running errands around town,
Plug in hybrids can be a nice compromise, but it's just that -- a compromise. You get a some of the advantages of a full EV but you also get a lot of the maintenance issues. You sort of get the best and worst of both worlds.
joed|rt wrote: you don't need the super charger (15 minute to 1 hour charger) or a 240V 60A charger (4-6 hour charger) at your house that will require a service panel upgrade
Most people don't need a service panel upgrade to install a 240V charger. I didn't. Most go with 50A circuit, which is plenty fast and it's the same kind of circuit you have already if you have an electric dryer or electric stove.
Furthermore, lots of EV owners get by charging their car on the ordinary 120V socket that they already have in the garage. So there is nothing to install.
joed|rt wrote:
and will require the utility to change out all of the electrical infrastructure serving your neighborhood when your neighbors decide they all want high end chargers as well
An extra 240V 50A circuit in each house is no big deal. But the electric utility will be happy make any changes if needed. It means they are selling more electricity. In fact, my electric company gave me a $400 incentive to install my charger. Electric utilities are thrilled about EVs.
joed|rt wrote:[charging stations are far more than just an extension cord as superchargers require commercial level electrical service (480V) at high amperages]. The smaller 72kW super chargers require 480V, 150A electric service, which is what you would find at a small commercial building. the 250kW super chargers require 480V at over 500A, which is enough to serve a decent sized school.
Let's not get this confused with home charging where your charging station is definitely just a glorified extension cord. Technically, it's not even a charger as the charger is inside the car.
My point about that was just that charging infrastructure does not require a lot of new, innovative technology. DC fast chargers are easy to build and install. It's a lot easier than it was to build out gas stations, oil refineries, and fuel delivery infrastructure.
If you find it scary, don't watch him.
Not all areas are the same wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
Your car gets 500 miles per tank? So you have to stop every 450 miles or so to fuel up at a smelly gas station and pay big bucks for the experience. Yes, and I work by several gas stations and typically get gas without fretting the experience and rarely notice a smell. I often need to grab milk, or bananas, or bread otherwise I pay at the pump and I'm gone in a couple of minutes.
Unless I'm on a road trip, I never have to stop at all.
I typically stop every three to four hours to use a restroom and grab something to eat or drink and fuel up. This is typically 10 - 15 minutes unless we plan to dine in.
Common repairs and maintenance in gas cars:
oil change
spark plugs
brake pads
tire rotation
transmission fluid
transmission replacement
worn out belts
worn out hoses
fuel filter replacement
air filter replacement
battery replacement
antifreeze replacement
muffler replacement
wiper replacement
thermostat replacement
air flow sensor replacement
ignition coil replacement
O2 sensor replacement
catalytic converter replacement
spark plug wire replacement
solenoid replacement
Common repairs and maintenance in EVs:
rotate tires
wiper replacement
There are thousands of moving parts in a gas car. A typical EV has maybe 20. That's why they don't require much maintenance. Makes sense that there is less maintenance, but I have been fortunate not to have needed much in vehicle repairs and my last battery I replaced was $79.99 and I put it in my self in 10 minutes and was given $10 on my old battery, can you say that with an EV?
There are stats from Tesla showing that they get in a lot fewer accidents than gas cars. This is because they have excellent collision avoidance systems and today these systems are more likely to be in an EV than in a gas car. I believe many new gas vehicles now have similar safety features.
But my main point is that EVs are always rated as much safer in an accident than their gas counterparts. The main reason is because they are 11 times less likely to catch fire and because they don't roll over. It turns out that having a heavy engine mounted high in the vehicle that also sucks up a very flammable liquid doesn't fare so well in a crash. That does make sense but I see very few rollovers and believe they make up a very small percentage of accidents.
Yes, if you are on a very long trip (over 6 hours) it will take a little longer in an EV. That is the gas car's only advantage.
Which EVs are inexpensive? All of them.
This is definitely where we differ. Your version of inexpensive is much different than mine, and I'm talking initial new purchase price, or used purchase price.
Total cost of ownership is much lower than a gas car because electricity is several times less than gasoline and EVs require a lot less maintenance.
My kid is in college. Most college campuses have EV charging stations.
Maybe, but way less off campus housing are set up for this.
As soon as we get our Tesla, my kid will be getting the Bolt EV to use at school.
Superior acceleration and handling make the EVs more fun to drive. It also makes the car safer. Ask anyone who has tried it out. Or just watch the many videos of people who experience the instant torque for the first time. Big smiles. I guess that is all a matter pf opinion.
EVs are very good for towing. Several models can be ordered with tow hitches. Lots of people haul boats and campers with EVs.
Which EV would you recommend to tow a 21' Ranger bass boat or 32' Jayco travel trailer?
More replies for you in bold
Thanks for the reasonable replies. This is a good discussion. I only have a few comments on your latest comments:
* The reason rollovers are important is because even though they are relatively rare, they contribute to 35% of all auto fatalities. An EV is almost impossible to flip, so you are much less likely to be killed in one.
* About initial purchase cost, the price of EVs are coming down very fast. If you combine that with the $7500 federal tax credit you can usually find an EV that is cheaper than the comparable gas car.
Here are some towing capacities of various EVs:
Telsa Model X: 5,000 lbs
Tesla Model Y: 3,500 lbs
Tesla Cybertruck: 14,000 lbs
Rivian R1T: 11,000 lbs
Those last two are expected to start shipping late this year.
BLM!! wrote:
Dr. Racket wrote:
2) You're either trolling at this poin,t or truly a massive EV stan.
No way is this not a troll. No one is that enthusiastic about EVs to continue this conversation for this long.
As long as people have legitimate questions I'm happy to answer as best I can. I am very enthusiastic about EVs because electrification is one of the things we must do to save humanity.
As for shrimpy, I think I'm done with him. It did get old.
Fat hurts wrote:
Not all areas are the same wrote:
A few replies in bold
Your car gets 500 miles per tank? So you have to stop every 450 miles or so to fuel up at a smelly gas station and pay big bucks for the experience. Unless I'm on a road trip, I never have to stop at all.
Common repairs and maintenance in gas cars:
oil change
spark plugs
brake pads
tire rotation
transmission fluid
transmission replacement
worn out belts
worn out hoses
fuel filter replacement
air filter replacement
battery replacement
antifreeze replacement
muffler replacement
wiper replacement
thermostat replacement
air flow sensor replacement
ignition coil replacement
O2 sensor replacement
catalytic converter replacement
spark plug wire replacement
solenoid replacement
Common repairs and maintenance in EVs:
rotate tires
wiper replacement
There are thousands of moving parts in a gas car. A typical EV has maybe 20. That's why they don't require much maintenance.
There are stats from Tesla showing that they get in a lot fewer accidents than gas cars. This is because they have excellent collision avoidance systems and today these systems are more likely to be in an EV than in a gas car.
But my main point is that EVs are always rated as much safer in an accident than their gas counterparts. The main reason is because they are 11 times less likely to catch fire and because they don't roll over. It turns out that having a heavy engine mounted high in the vehicle that also sucks up a very flammable liquid doesn't fare so well in a crash.
Yes, if you are on a very long trip (over 6 hours) it will take a little longer in an EV. That is the gas car's only advantage.
Which EVs are inexpensive? All of them. Total cost of ownership is much lower than a gas car because electricity is several times less than gasoline and EVs require a lot less maintenance.
My kid is in college. Most college campuses have EV charging stations. As soon as we get our Tesla, my kid will be getting the Bolt EV to use at school.
Superior acceleration and handling make the EVs more fun to drive. It also makes the car safer. Ask anyone who has tried it out. Or just watch the many videos of people who experience the instant torque for the first time. Big smiles.
EVs are very good for towing. Several models can be ordered with tow hitches. Lots of people haul boats and campers with EVs.
Lol what? You must have had some sh!tty cars if you think those are common repairs. lol. Listen. You’re either a fanboy or a troll. I get it. Even if all things you listed are true it doesn’t change the fact that today’s EVs are frustrating and inconvenient. You demonstrated this over and over again by explaining the hoops you have to jump through to do simple things with an EV. I do like now how you have backtracked and said some things that are untrue that you said were untrue in previous posts. Shows how emotional you gotten and want to ‘win’ at all costs. Lol. Listen today’s EVs are frustrating and inconvenient. No matter how much you backtrack in your previous posts it doesn’t change that fact. Keep on with the hail Mary’s it’s desperation time.
Fat hurts wrote:
Not all areas are the same wrote:
More replies for you in bold
Thanks for the reasonable replies. This is a good discussion. I only have a few comments on your latest comments:
* The reason rollovers are important is because even though they are relatively rare, they contribute to 35% of all auto fatalities. An EV is almost impossible to flip, so you are much less likely to be killed in one.
* About initial purchase cost, the price of EVs are coming down very fast. If you combine that with the $7500 federal tax credit you can usually find an EV that is cheaper than the comparable gas car.
Here are some towing capacities of various EVs:
Telsa Model X: 5,000 lbs
Tesla Model Y: 3,500 lbs
Tesla Cybertruck: 14,000 lbs
Rivian R1T: 11,000 lbs
Those last two are expected to start shipping late this year.
The Tesla Truck looks like something I would not drive. I like the looks of the other Teslas you recommend but there is no space to haul gear and I honestly don't believe they would work very well to haul a boat or travel trailer. I would also be curious how much that would stress the battery - pulling a boat or trailer?
$90k - $7500 is still way too expensive for all the short comings that still exist in my area and in the areas I travel in regards to EV. Sorry.
Not all areas are the same wrote:
The Tesla Truck looks like something I would not drive. I like the looks of the other Teslas you recommend but there is no space to haul gear and I honestly don't believe they would work very well to haul a boat or travel trailer. I would also be curious how much that would stress the battery - pulling a boat or trailer?
$90k - $7500 is still way too expensive for all the short comings that still exist in my area and in the areas I travel in regards to EV. Sorry.
For those that have not seen the Tesla CyberTruck. Will people really buy this?
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruckNot all areas are the same wrote:
Not all areas are the same wrote:
The Tesla Truck looks like something I would not drive. I like the looks of the other Teslas you recommend but there is no space to haul gear and I honestly don't believe they would work very well to haul a boat or travel trailer. I would also be curious how much that would stress the battery - pulling a boat or trailer?
$90k - $7500 is still way too expensive for all the short comings that still exist in my area and in the areas I travel in regards to EV. Sorry.
For those that have not seen the Tesla CyberTruck. Will people really buy this?
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
Not to mention that the same guy the built the truck is the one that built these rockets:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/03/tech/spacex-starship-sn10-test-flight-scn/index.htmlIn non EV news,
US vaccinations hit another new high, but barely: 2.04 million,
march 4 was around 12% more than a week ago
Good States
MO
HI
CO
ND
ME
VT
and....
SC, welcome aboard.
Bad States
NY come on enough already
NJ you too, grow up
DE
RI
MO
AR
In the US we're on a bit of a plateau, although technically things are improving, albeit slowly.
All eyes on whether vaccinations will prevent the virus from having enough warm bodies to mutate in.
In UK and Israel things are improving more quickly, while in france things are deteriorating.
I'm hoping vaccinations will open up a lot next week - down to the 50s or just open it to everyone. I know in my city there are empty appointments availabe - we're still at 65 plus teachers and comordities.
Fat hurts wrote:
As for shrimpy, I think I'm done with him. It did get old.
Good idea. Lolz. You weren’t doing so well especially once you starting contradicting your earlier statements. Hard to keep your lies straight. I will give you this. You did an excellent job describing how frustrating and inconvenient EVs of today are.
agip wrote:
In non EV news,
US vaccinations hit another new high, but barely: 2.04 million,
march 4 was around 12% more than a week ago
Good States
MO
HI
CO
ND
ME
VT
and....
SC, welcome aboard.
Bad States
NY come on enough already
NJ you too, grow up
DE
RI
MO
AR
I have no reason to dispute your numbers, but am just curious as to how you're defining "good" and "bad" in this context.
kibitzer wrote:
agip wrote:
In non EV news,
US vaccinations hit another new high, but barely: 2.04 million,
march 4 was around 12% more than a week ago
Good States
MO
HI
CO
ND
ME
VT
and....
SC, welcome aboard.
Bad States
NY come on enough already
NJ you too, grow up
DE
RI
MO
AR
I have no reason to dispute your numbers, but am just curious as to how you're defining "good" and "bad" in this context.
best category and worst quintile, per the CDC.
Either cases or deaths.
(it's actually 6 not 5 but I don't know what the next 'tile is)
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7daysagip wrote:
kibitzer wrote:
I have no reason to dispute your numbers, but am just curious as to how you're defining "good" and "bad" in this context.
best category and worst quintile, per the CDC.
Either cases or deaths.
(it's actually 6 not 5 but I don't know what the next 'tile is)
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days
also, typo
MO is a good state, not a bad state. Sorry. And you do have some of the best bbq.
agip wrote:
Bad States
NY come on enough already
NY seems to be in the "Bad States" category because of a high number of cases, but they have a positivity rate much lower then ME (3% vs 30%), which suggests that they're simply doing a lot more testing, thus catching more low level or asymptomatic cases. That is, the "cases" metric is sensitive to how much testing is being performed and there is significant variation across states.
Not all areas are the same wrote:
Not all areas are the same wrote:
The Tesla Truck looks like something I would not drive. I like the looks of the other Teslas you recommend but there is no space to haul gear and I honestly don't believe they would work very well to haul a boat or travel trailer. I would also be curious how much that would stress the battery - pulling a boat or trailer?
$90k - $7500 is still way too expensive for all the short comings that still exist in my area and in the areas I travel in regards to EV. Sorry.
For those that have not seen the Tesla CyberTruck. Will people really buy this?
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
They have over 500,000 reservation. So yeah.