Cain's main point, which is true is that NOP, Nike, Track and Field and many other sports..so basically sport culture and the business OF SPORT is made for and by men, and women must (still) fit into the boxes defined by men in order to work within that system.
Because it is made for men, it is inherently designed to either use and commodity women, try to treat them the same as males, or abuse them and spit them out.
By the way this also harms men..as demonstrated by multiple posts in here!
Woahisme wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/opinion/nike-running-mary-cain.htmlMainly concerns the win-at-all costs approach at NOP that lead to weight loss, injuries and suicidal thoughts.
Discus
I see no evidence .
wrgpowefpj wrote:
While I do feel incredible sympathy for Mary, she clearly wasn't helping herself in this situation and should take some of the blame upon herself.
In this article, she praises the Oregon Project and how they are "a great group of people", which she went out of the way to say and did not have to say at all. If she really wanted help, she should have made herself a little more transparent instead of outright lying to the media.
That being say, I do understand why she felt pressured to do what she did, and I probably would've done the same thing. I had respect for Alberto up until this point, but after watching that video I can't be more glad that he's banned.
https://spikes.iaaf.org/post/mary-cain-i-just-have-so-much-fun?utm_source=iaaf.org&utm_medium=gridclick
This article was written right when she had just moved to Oregon to train with the team. None of that stuff had started happening in earnest yet:
“The plan is to be with everyone else, with the training and great coaching,” she says
yeah, i'm sure that was the plan
and yet even before she was in Oregon, it still includes:
"Oh my God. He was yelling. I felt so bad – he was so freaked out!"
and
‘I know I’m hard on you. But that’s what you have to be to get on that next level.’
that spikes article is both written before most of this stuff went down and also supports the environment she describes now.
Chris Barnicle has the state outdoor record of 8:50 run at the Hartford meet. Salazar still has the outdoor meet record of 9:00. Franklin Sanchez has the overall record with his 8:49 at the indoor state meet in the "Race of the Century" against Andy Powell.
Came here for the victim-blaming from the NOP d!ck-riders. Wasn't disappointed.
MRMRMRMR wrote:
Lots of regular people survive much, much worse sh*t on a daily basis. And we don't go whining about it to the NYTimes.
"You want to talk about emotional abuse? I eat sh*t for breakfast every day! And do I ever complain? No! I eat sh*t PROUDLY. I eat sh*t with a smile on my face. I eat sh*t and I say 'thank you, sir, can I please have some more?' And THAT is what makes ME better than this stupid young woman."
You loser. She was just a kid! The best kid runner in America by leaps and bounds, and Salazar/Nike swooped in and set her on fire.
The Gallant Pig Man wrote:
MRMRMRMR wrote:
Lots of regular people survive much, much worse sh*t on a daily basis. And we don't go whining about it to the NYTimes.
"You want to talk about emotional abuse? I eat sh*t for breakfast every day! And do I ever complain? No! I eat sh*t PROUDLY. I eat sh*t with a smile on my face. I eat sh*t and I say 'thank you, sir, can I please have some more?' And THAT is what makes ME better than this stupid young woman."
You loser. She was just a kid! The best kid runner in America by leaps and bounds, and Salazar/Nike swooped in and set her on fire.
Don't be so mean. Some people just want to lick the boot. It provides security.
I have to say, this whole thing confirms my concerns about having male coaches for young female runners. The potential for abuse -- and that covers a wide range of issues, including some criminal -- is just too great. I am sure there are many great male coaches of female programs, but putting that much power over vulnerable kids is risky.
I am also disappointed that the older women in Mary's group (apparently) didn't do more to support & protect her.
Chin ups and push ups are the answer wrote:
And Males... wrote:
It's not just females.
I ran D1 and often received comments on my weight. I was far from fat, but also didn't look like a pro 10K runner. I was running very high mileage (over 100mpw) and had very little body fat, but I retained muscle in my arms and upper body. I think I was about 140 and 5'10". I looked very lean without a shirt, ribs all over the place, but was still encouraged to watch my weight.
I remember one evening after running 18 miles for the day: 7 mile morning run and a 11 miles worth of afternoon mileage on a hard track workout day. I went to a Subway and felt guilty about getting a turkey sandwich with no cheese and nothing fattening on it. I felt fat after I ate it, and went home and told myself that I am a 20 year old man who feels guilty about a turkey sandwich after an 18 mile day - something has to change.
I know very few male college runners with normal relationships to food. I think this story is important to tell, but to act like it isn't a wider problem outside of Nike is just ignorant. What is the answer? I don't know.
The answer is to have minimum upper body strength requirements for NCAA runners. Nothing crazy, something like 15 chin ups and 40 push ups for males. And probably half that for females. Runners who starve themselves have little to no upper body mass or strength. By requiring this strength requirement, it would force athletes into a postive protein balance. Which means they aren't starving themselves, or at least minimize it greatly.
What percentage of men (not limited to NCAA runners) can do 15 chin ups? What percentage of women (not limited to NCAA runners) can do "half that?" A 15 chin up performance for a man and a 7.5 chin up performance for a woman would be about sub-elite level.
Not really though wrote:
Win at all costs because the coach wanted her to lose weight? Imagine a coach at the highest level of the sport not being able to tell his athlete she’s too heavy. That’s where track has reached. And people wonder why Track is dying and not taken seriously. This isn’t high school or college, this is professional sports. Did she really think she could sign a professional contract and then gain weight and underperform and nobody would say anything?
You clearly didn’t read the article or watch the video. Cain clearly says race weight is something that is important. She says they wanted to give her prescription meds to lose weight, which is illegal in track. She said they weighed her in front of her teammates and she was bashed in front of people for being “overweight” and having a bad race. She said she was cutting herself, told coaches and they didn’t care. She’s talking about the culture being toxic, which it very clearly is. You fan boys are pathetic and will defend anything. Grow up. If someone is wrong, they’re wrong. Stop trying to justifying it because your hero actually is just an a-hole
poi'8y wrote:
Chin ups and push ups are the answer wrote:
The answer is to have minimum upper body strength requirements for NCAA runners. Nothing crazy, something like 15 chin ups and 40 push ups for males. And probably half that for females. Runners who starve themselves have little to no upper body mass or strength. By requiring this strength requirement, it would force athletes into a postive protein balance. Which means they aren't starving themselves, or at least minimize it greatly.
What percentage of men (not limited to NCAA runners) can do 15 chin ups? What percentage of women (not limited to NCAA runners) can do "half that?" A 15 chin up performance for a man and a 7.5 chin up performance for a woman would be about sub-elite level.
Any young healthy man who isn't overweight or starving himself and does some strength training a few times a week.
poi'8y wrote:
Chin ups and push ups are the answer wrote:
The answer is to have minimum upper body strength requirements for NCAA runners. Nothing crazy, something like 15 chin ups and 40 push ups for males. And probably half that for females. Runners who starve themselves have little to no upper body mass or strength. By requiring this strength requirement, it would force athletes into a postive protein balance. Which means they aren't starving themselves, or at least minimize it greatly.
What percentage of men (not limited to NCAA runners) can do 15 chin ups? What percentage of women (not limited to NCAA runners) can do "half that?" A 15 chin up performance for a man and a 7.5 chin up performance for a woman would be about sub-elite level.
Like 95% of my high school team can do that. That's definitely not sub-elite.
Anyone on this thread trying to summarize the article and video as merely Mary complaining about being told to lose weight is being intellectually dishonest.
Lewandowski and Makhloufi are probably the only WC medalists 1500 and up that could do 15 chin-ups.
1955 wrote:
I have to say, this whole thing confirms my concerns about having male coaches for young female runners. The potential for abuse -- and that covers a wide range of issues, including some criminal -- is just too great. I am sure there are many great male coaches of female programs, but putting that much power over vulnerable kids is risky.
I am also disappointed that the older women in Mary's group (apparently) didn't do more to support & protect her.
I don't think this is accurate at all. I've seen huge levels of emotional abuse coming from female coaches to female athletes. Often in my experience moreso than with male coaches. It would be an extremely bad and sexist idea to say that male coaches shouldn't coach female programs.
FYI, according to this website. 15 chin ups is intermediate for males and 6 - 7 chin ups is intermediate for females. For about the approximate weight most collegiate runners probably weigh.
"Knowing what she signed up for" is the biggest BS ever.
She didn't sign up to be berated by a coach with an (apparently) limited understanding of human physiology and development.
Al Sal is officially trash.
I can't imagine how terrible the culture at NOP must have been for nobody to speak up about stuff like this.
Chin ups and push ups are the answer wrote:
FYI, according to this website. 15 chin ups is intermediate for males and 6 - 7 chin ups is intermediate for females. For about the approximate weight most collegiate runners probably weigh.
https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/chin-ups
Did nobody ever do chin-ups during S&C in college? Median on my team was about 7 (for men). This included all Americans.
You don't need to do close to 15 to be a good distance runner. Stop saying otherwise.
how does bowerman deal with diet, weight, loss of periods, stress fractures?
Chin ups and push ups are the answer wrote:
FYI, according to this website. 15 chin ups is intermediate for males and 6 - 7 chin ups is intermediate for females. For about the approximate weight most collegiate runners probably weigh.
https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/chin-ups
Not for runners. Seb Coe was never able to climb a rope without using his legs and arms. Brendan Foster couldn't climb one AT ALL.