dude, if people want to eat and die fat. there problems. CKE (carl jrs. and hardees) has got it right. nothing beats a pastrami burger or a thinkburger. bring on the bacon.
dude, if people want to eat and die fat. there problems. CKE (carl jrs. and hardees) has got it right. nothing beats a pastrami burger or a thinkburger. bring on the bacon.
judge wapner wrote:
dude, if people want to eat and die fat. there problems. CKE (carl jrs. and hardees) has got it right. nothing beats a pastrami burger or a thinkburger. bring on the bacon.
Actually some of the luney tunes on this thread have it right. It isn't JUST their problem, it's all of ours. Medical costs are skyrocketing, it's supply and demand. All the fat asses demand medical attention and the HMOs are supplying at a consistently rising cost. If hardly anyone needed medical care you bet it would cost very little.
Miles and Miles wrote:
Actually some of the luney tunes on this thread have it right. It isn't JUST their problem, it's all of ours. Medical costs are skyrocketing, it's supply and demand. All the fat asses demand medical attention and the HMOs are supplying at a consistently rising cost. If hardly anyone needed medical care you bet it would cost very little.
Up yours, you self-righteous tosser. Go back and wank some more over your mileage logs and watch your back the next time you spit on the sidewalk or blow snot out all over the public streets. You disgusting stick monkeys make me sick with your whining and moaning and bleating about how not everyone is as "fit" as you think you are. Suck eggs.
When it comes down to it, fat people can kick your skinny ass any day, and that is what you are upset about.
Californian wrote:
But some people are overweight through no fault of their own...
College Guy wrote:
No. In countries where there is no food, there are no fat people.
I'd just like to point out College Guy's response one more time here. Best post of this thread. I don't see how there's much more to say after this.
up yers matey wrote:
Up yours, you self-righteous tosser. Go back and wank some more over your mileage logs and watch your back the next time you spit on the sidewalk or blow snot out all over the public streets. You disgusting stick monkeys make me sick with your whining and moaning and bleating about how not everyone is as "fit" as you think you are. Suck eggs.
When it comes down to it, fat people can kick your skinny ass any day, and that is what you are upset about.
OK thanks for the response. Feel better now? You annonomously put someone down on the internet, wow your the man. I am very out of shape for me, for the record. Ummm... have a nice day.
Californian wrote:
Your first question completely misses the point of what I've been saying. I don't support obease people. What I think that people on this board fail to realize is that all fat people are not lazy and lacking self-discipline and self-control. Some people are fat because they have a food addiction. Some people are fat because of certain diseases they have (thyroid disease). Some people are fat because they are on medication fot other diseases (medicine for manic-depressive people slows down there metabolisms and can cause tremendous weight gain). Some people are fat because something tramatic happened to them, and they have using food as a coping mechanism to mask the pain because they haven't properly dealt with the tragety yet.
If people think that all fat people are lazy, they are mistaken. But look at the vast majority of overweight people. When it comes to physical activity, they are lazy. That's why I saw cars lined up to get the closet parking spot at Wal-Mart today (don't get me started on that damn company).
It's true, some have disease. MOST DON'T.
I agree that many are people are fat because they lack discipline, lack self-control or are too lazy. But many people are not in these three camps. As a health care professional, you may have helped some people turn their lives around by losing weight. But I guarantee you, you didn't really help all the people you think you helped.
What the hell does this mean?
Some of them are overweight for reasons that require psychological treatment to deal with. Soemone who has been eating for 10 years to comfort themselves after the death of their husband might lose 100 pounds under your tutelage, but they will probably gain it all back because they haven't dealt with what caused their weight gain- coping with a traumatic event, not lack of self-control.
I worked with these people for months and years in a cardiac rehab program. I helped a guy lose over 30 pounds, safely. He changed his whole lifestyle with my help. Don't tell me that I didn't help people with whom I worked. Our program has a health psychologist who helps the patients understand the problem they have/had. We help them cope, understand the problem, and fix it. It's not like working at Ballys or Golds Gym.
The funny thing is that everyone talks about all of the health costs of obesity. No one mentions the tremendous health costs associated with anorexia. Anorexic people have higher incidence of heart failure than do obease people. And there are a lot more anorexic people around you than you realize.
Give me a break. Anorexics suffer more heart failure because they don't have enough fuel in their bodies to cause electrical activity in cardiac muscle. The mechanism of heart failure (which is different than a heart attack, but can be a result of one) is due to tissue death from lack of blood flow.
Why is it that everyone wants to attack and berate obease people, when overly skinny people actually cause more of an expense to society?
What? Total health care costs are higher for skinny people? What have you been smoking? Each individual skinny person may result in higher health care costs, but b/c there are significant more overweight people needing health care, the numbers make up for a decreased cost.
And before the typical poster comes on here and tells me that I'm just defending obease people because I am fat myself, think again. I am 5'10, 144 pounds, 24 years old. I've never been fat, and I love running enough to keep doing until I'm at least 60. Thus, I will probably never become overwieght. I'm lucky that I love doing an activity that keeps my body in good form. But many people don't enjoy running or swimming or cycling or other such aerobic activities. Some people work 80 hours a week to support a family and make ends meet. They are too tired to exercise or don't have the time to do so. So before you typical posters come out and say, "just go run 10 miles and you won't have a weight problem," think again. Its not that easy.
20 minutes. 3 times per week. Even if you work 80 hours, if your health is important to you, you can find that time. I've seen it done.
I'll agree with you that people on this board rush to judgement quickly, and don't think about all the sides to an issue. I hope you realize that I read through your post and quoted it to make sure I responded as coherently as possible.
You say that you are 24, so you've been out of college a couple years. What is your career? Do you work with obese or unhealthy people on a daily basis? I'm interested b/c I wonder from where your strong feeling on this subject come.
Obesity is a complicated problem, a point that many of you miss on this message board. The answer isn't always, eat less or run more or be more disciplined. Rather than bitching about having to pay a little bit more each month on your health premiums, be thankful that you are fortunate enough to be free of uncontrolable problems that can lead to obesity.
True, it is a complicated problem, but the answer is very simple. Calories in must be less than calories out. It's true there are many other factors that need to be taken into account, but if you strip it down, it's just a math problem.
To the person who quoted the study on BMI: BMI is now an outdated way to measure body composition. It doesn't take into account muscle mass or fat mass. Therefore, a healthy person with a lot of muscle will have a higher BMI even though their risk of disease is less than someone with a lower BMI who is not healthy. Underwater weighing is the best measure, but it's costly. We use a combination of BMI and waist circumference. It gives a better idea of where the person carries their weight.
Obesity is mostly related to economic factors. The cheapest food (processed, fat,sweets) is the worst for people while fresh veggies, fruits, whole grains, and low fat meat such as turkey and chicken breast is more expensive. In agricultural times when families grew their own foods, this was not the case. Couple this with more jobs becoming sedentary and you will have this problem in any country, not just the United States.
Technology is another problem. 25-30 years ago, kids had to pass the time with physical activities. Tv, computers, and games now take up more time. Schools throughout the country are being pressured to achieve more academically and are mistakenly taking exercise (recess, gym class) out of the curriculum.
Adults feel the need to put the acquisition of material goods ahead of their health. A large house payment, 2 car payments, credit card debt, the unbelievable inflation of a college education puts pressure on people to work too much and not exercise enough.
All of these factors lead to obesity problems. The world isn't going to go back to where it was, so these problems may be around for many generations to come.
Dynamite! wrote:
To the person who quoted the study on BMI: BMI is now an outdated way to measure body composition. It doesn't take into account muscle mass or fat mass. Therefore, a healthy person with a lot of muscle will have a higher BMI even though their risk of disease is less than someone with a lower BMI who is not healthy. Underwater weighing is the best measure, but it's costly. We use a combination of BMI and waist circumference. It gives a better idea of where the person carries their weight.
That may be true, but you still have to explain how that invalidates the study. Are there really a significant number of people that are placed in the obese category because they have a lot of muscle mass?
dukerdog wrote:
It would be difficult for them to believe any of those 3 statements I listed, yet according to the study, at least one of them must be true. Apparently, you don't have any problem believing #2 is true. I tend to believe both #1 and #2 are true.
Actually I disagree with you on quite a bit, however, since I have to leave town for most of the day, I can't respond right now. I'll try to write something by tonight.
7:10 AM saw two middle school children at the school bus stop drinking cans of Coke. 7:10 AM? Coke, a great breakfast drink. Poor habits learned early in life. Real simple, eat right and excercise. Look at the comments made by Rick Majerus yesterday in resigning the USC basketball job. Stated that he has a problem and can't "bring it" like he needs to for the job. The problem? 370 lbs.! He knows he has a problem. Has had heart problems, resigned the Utah job for health reasons. Fix it! This country as a whole is fat and lazy. Spend a day looking around, fat people everywhere ordering big macs, fries and a DIET coke. I swear everybody is fat. I coach high school track and cross-country and it is unbelievable how many new kids will come out and not even be able to run one lap around a track. One lap! 400 meters! Unless you saw it it wouldn't believe it. Breakfast of choice at school, chips of some kind and a soft drink, or a breakfast meal from a fast food place and a soft drink. It is amazing to watch. I've rambled, I'm done.
Funny how most of the kids in my neighborhood are overweight. Actually it is not funny it is sad. They come to my house with my son and when I get them a drink they want soda or some other crap. My son asks for water or juice, becasue I didn't bring him up on soda. The kids come over and want to play computer games while my son wants to go outside and play them for real. The kids come over and want to play sim-city while my son wants to go outside into the wods and build a fort. I am not bragging, I am just pointing out it is something that starts very young with our children. They need to be brought up in a house that commends them for doing active things and encourages it. Don't plop them infront of a TV or video game because it is easier. Don't hit MC D's becasue it is faster then making something at home that has nutritional value. Enjoy your kids youth. Play outside with them. Help them build their forts or teach them to play sports. If you don't know how, learn with them. Maybe you will learn something new and drop a few pounds yourself in the process.
Let me tell you where my strong feelings on this subject come from. I visited an eating disorder clinic in Oklahoma, one of the best in the country, on several occasions. There were patients there who had tried for years to lose weight (some had been quite obese). Many lost tremndous amounts of weight, only to repeatedly gain it back time and time again.
What changed after they went to this eating disorder clinic is that the councelors helped them figure out why they were eating so much. They didn't tell them that they had no self control or they were lazy. They spent months with these patients figuring out why exactly they ate so much. Some felt abandoned as children by their parents. Some had been made fun of when they were in elementary school. Some had been physically and verbally abused. Some had been raped. Once the specific triggering event (or events) were identified, the councelors helped the patients to deal with the problems, and amazingly enough, they stopped eating so much. They stopped using food for comfort and started becoming problem solvers. I have kept in contact with several of the patients whom I met, and after more than a year, none have gained any weight back, none have had a single episode of binge eating.
In my limited experience, it seems like a better solution to helping obesity is to figure out why some is obese, rather than lumping them into the category of lazy and undisciplined and throwing them on a diet. With obesity, food is often not the problem, it is just a symptom of the real problem.
Exactly the same for Drinkers, Smokers, and other Drug addicts! Sure drug addicts don't pay tax on their supplies but thats why it aint cheap. Fat is very cheap to buy - why not tax it like alcohol and nicotine? Low amounts of alcohol, nicotine, and fat is not destructive, but why is alcohol and smokes taxed?
Californian wrote:
Let me tell you where my strong feelings on this subject come from. I visited an eating disorder clinic in Oklahoma, one of the best in the country, on several occasions. There were patients there who had tried for years to lose weight (some had been quite obese). Many lost tremndous amounts of weight, only to repeatedly gain it back time and time again.
What changed after they went to this eating disorder clinic is that the councelors helped them figure out why they were eating so much. They didn't tell them that they had no self control or they were lazy. They spent months with these patients figuring out why exactly they ate so much. Some felt abandoned as children by their parents. Some had been made fun of when they were in elementary school. Some had been physically and verbally abused. Some had been raped. Once the specific triggering event (or events) were identified, the councelors helped the patients to deal with the problems, and amazingly enough, they stopped eating so much. They stopped using food for comfort and started becoming problem solvers. I have kept in contact with several of the patients whom I met, and after more than a year, none have gained any weight back, none have had a single episode of binge eating.
In my limited experience, it seems like a better solution to helping obesity is to figure out why some is obese, rather than lumping them into the category of lazy and undisciplined and throwing them on a diet. With obesity, food is often not the problem, it is just a symptom of the real problem.
Fat is a macro nutrient essential for survival. That is why it is not taxed. And fat alone is not responsible for weight gain- carbohyrdates and protein eaten in excess of calorie expenditure also will cause weight gain. So, I guess we are going to tax fat, protein, and carbohyrdates. We might as well just slap an extra tax on all food, since any combination of food eaten in excess of caloire expenditure precipitates weight gain.
That would do the trick - calorie tax then to be precise. Even if skinny people pay a tiny bit of food tax for their caloric needs, the obese will try and avoid their usage and save health costs(taxes) for us all. It's just the same as those healthy people who enjoy a glass of red wine with their meal - they pay tax for that alcohol.
Californian wrote:
Fat is a macro nutrient essential for survival. That is why it is not taxed. And fat alone is not responsible for weight gain- carbohyrdates and protein eaten in excess of calorie expenditure also will cause weight gain. So, I guess we are going to tax fat, protein, and carbohyrdates. We might as well just slap an extra tax on all food, since any combination of food eaten in excess of caloire expenditure precipitates weight gain.
sorry if i'm repeating this, but i didnt want to read the whole thread on people just yelling at each other on other people being fat.....but the truth of the matter is that i am 99% positive that nobody on this message board is actually overweight considering that they are runners, and most of them probably have never had to deal with the fact of being overweight, but until you can walk in someone else's shoes, just shut up about things that you have no idea about!
Californian wrote:
Fat is a macro nutrient essential for survival. That is why it is not taxed. And fat alone is not responsible for weight gain- carbohyrdates and protein eaten in excess of calorie expenditure also will cause weight gain. So, I guess we are going to tax fat, protein, and carbohyrdates. We might as well just slap an extra tax on all food, since any combination of food eaten in excess of caloire expenditure precipitates weight gain.
True, it's the amount of TOTAL calories in vs. TOTAL calories out.
Taxing food is not the answer, b/c everyone needs to eat, regardless of their body composition.
Thank you for the explanation of your experience. I'm sure that your presence there helped people and gave you valuable knowledge. However, your description of the situation tells me that the range of people you saw did not represent the overall population of the country. People were at the clinic because they, or a loved one, knew they had a problem and wanted to fix it. I work with people who don't know they have a problem, or don't care to fix it.
Your defense of obese people makes sense knowing your experience. Unfortunately, you're defending a very small part of the obese/overweight population.
People with health problem should have higher health insurance premiums. I consider obesity to be a health problem.
Actually, your calorie tax will probably cost the people on this message board more than it will cost a lot of overweight people. A lot of competitive runners are eating over 4,000 calories a day. People can become overweight eating 2,500 a day if they do not exercise. So you will actually be hurt more than the lazy fat couch potato you are trying to punish.
why?? wrote:
and most of them probably have never had to deal with the fact of being overweight, but until you can walk in someone else's shoes, just shut up about things that you have no idea about!
So I'm not overweight, but that still doesn't explain why obesity rates have doubled in the last 20 years. Has there been an outbreak of genetic thyroid problems we haven't heard about? Is there a big upswing on people getting depressed over a marital breakup? Has there been a re-writing of science so that the basic math: calories in - calories out = net weight gain?
Dynamite, I agree that many people are overweight because they don't take the time to exercise or they just plain eat too much, no other factors involved. But I tend to believe that there are many people who would never even think to get treated for overeating because they believe what the mainstream tells them- they are lazy undisciplined. You can become overweight through years of no exercise and eating a little bit too much. That's what happens to a lot of people. But to become obese, you really have to be comsuming tremendous amounts of food. I would question why someone would eat to the point of fullness and then continue to gorge themselves. Is it really that they have no self-discipline, or could there be some reason why they are stuffing themselves to the point where they are in pain? When I see someone 50 or 100 pounds overweight, I have to wonder what is causing them to eat so much food? And I really doubt it is just a lack of self-control. But most people can't fathom that they would be eating for any other reason than the sheer enjoyment of food or for survival. Otherwise, more people who be seeking psychological treatment for overeating.