Testoboost and Androgel - common among American elite runners

Point of order wrote:

Testosterone isn't expressly illegal

Yes it is:

http://list.wada-ama.org/list/s1-anabolic-agents/

You are not thinking like Al Sal and any number of dopers. If the athlete never tests positive then they aren't doping.

It is okay to use up to a ridiculous 4:1 threshold because there is no testing for exogenous Test until the athlete crosses the 4:1 threshold. That's assuming a T:E test is ordered. That's also assuming the athlete is an idiot and is dosing during the day AND doesn't run away from a very rare surprise test.

There are so many opportunities for abuse and doping, especially with Test given the IOC's ridiculous 4:1 threshold. Even a teenage male is only slightly above 1:1 unaided. 4:1 or lower gives an athlete fantastic recovery.

NOP fanboys are so willing to accept illicit activities by their team as ling as victories are won, and medals are reaped.

Rupp's test that Magness showed was not done by an MD. A real MD would not provide a real medical chart to an athletics coach for review. That would be a an actual violation of HIPAA.

runDirtyrun wrote:

That's also assuming the athlete is an idiot and is dosing during the day AND doesn't run away from a very rare surprise test.

How long does it take for testosterone levels to go down from, say, 4:1 to 1:1.

wonderer of things wrote:

runDirtyrun wrote:

That's also assuming the athlete is an idiot and is dosing during the day AND doesn't run away from a very rare surprise test.

How long does it take for testosterone levels to go down from, say, 4:1 to 1:1.

I don't fully understand the biochemistry of Test and the sports medicine/biology of athlete fatigue, so I'm not a great person to ask.

Maybe you are asking the wrong question? If the athlete's T:E ratio goes OVER 4:1, that triggers the exogenous test which, will return positive IF they took the sample within a couple of hours of dosage.

The IOC works very hard to "protect" athletes by only testing up to something like 21:00 or 22:00. (8-9PM) Like EPO, the time to do Test is right after the vampires cannot visit. By morning, you are never tested positive if you are monitoring your T:E ratio and staying below 4:1.

There are huge windows (plural) of opportunity guys like Al Sal are using to dope athletes. This is by design. The IOC is okay with doping, just don't kill yourself. That's without federation support hiding positives.

runDirtyrun wrote:

The IOC is okay with doping, just don't kill yourself. That's without federation support hiding positives.

But when illicit activities come out then a reevaluation occurs. Rupp, Salazar, and Farah are expendable. Tough love is given by banning them. The sport moves on. Other groups make adjustments to their means and methods. Bringing down Armstrong dented, but did not, destroy cycling, and the Tour de France is still the top cycling event in the world.

runDirtyrun wrote:

Maybe you are asking the wrong question? If the athlete's T:E ratio goes OVER 4:1, that triggers the exogenous test which, will return positive IF they took the sample within a couple of hours of dosage.

The IOC works very hard to "protect" athletes by only testing up to something like 21:00 or 22:00. (8-9PM) Like EPO, the time to do Test is right after the vampires cannot visit. By morning, you are never tested positive if you are monitoring your T:E ratio and staying below 4:1.

I guess the testers would get suspicious if they found a level like 3.5:1 in the morning. That's why I would like to know how long the break down time is.

Do they fluctuate between 3.5:1 and 4.5:1 or is it more like up to 8:1 right after the treatment and then 1:1 in the morning? Also, will the testosterone treatment have any effect when the levels return to normal?

I just don't get how it can be so difficult to detect. Unless, as you say, they don't want to detect it.

It may be "against the law," but so what?

So it is against the law, and therefore your claim is false. Thank you for admitting it.

You are not thinking like Al Sal and any number of dopers.

I never claimed to be, I was just pointing out, contary to your false assertion that testosterone is expressly illegal. What Salazar or anyone else believes is irrelevant, testosterone is expressly illegal, and anyone claiming otherwise is a fool who doesn't know what they are talking about.

Creating reliable tests for new PEDs is actually very difficult. The human body breaks many of the PEDs down quickly. It's like finding a needle in a haystack with the wind blowing the hay everywhere.

The long-lasting effects of Test are incremental. If you can recover 2% better than your clean competitor, then at the end of 30 days, you are in much better condition. Quit the Test and you still have the gains from the more rapid recovery.

Testosterone abuse, relative to the human norm 1:1 is widely abused in elite sport and the IOC has no intentions of bringing the threshold down near the human norm. Al Sal and every other cheater recognizes this and acts accordingly. IOC and IAAF really don't mind doping. The NOP scandal should make this clear.

A nice summary about Testosterone from a cycling website that normally goes to great lengths to protect dopers and doping.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/08/news/the-test-that-caught-tom-danielson_381086

Apparently, someone got smart and is doing targeted testing with the CIR version of the test. Better news is some anti-doping authority is paying for the test.

In this joker's case, he's a longtime unapologetic doper who got caught doping for the second time.

The shoddy way the IAAF operates their anti-doping program, Salazar and the rest of track and field will probably never get a CIR test. It would be even more surprising if a CIR test failure turned into a sanction.

That's pretty cool. I guess Rupp is one of those who have been target tested.

But with the high cost of the test it's still a long way until it can have any real impact. I can't forget that some guy claimed that when testers stepped onto the track in Iten half of the runners disappeared by climbing the fence on the other side of the track. Sophisticated tests will not work when athletes can hide from testers for months with the help of the national organizations.

wonderer of things wrote:

That's pretty cool. I guess Rupp is one of those who have been target tested.

But with the high cost of the test it's still a long way until it can have any real impact. I can't forget that some guy claimed that when testers stepped onto the track in Iten half of the runners disappeared by climbing the fence on the other side of the track. Sophisticated tests will not work when athletes can hide from testers for months with the help of the national organizations.

It seems to me Salazar was pretty focused on never testing positive, so it's anyone's guess what kind of suspicious profile Rupp has/had.

Bottom line is it took Seppelt releasing anonymized data to get the IAAF to sanction anyone from 10 years ago so I doubt they would ever sanction anyone currently, especially a Nike athlete.