An Open Letter To Suzy Favor Hamilton

Stupidity detector wrote:

And once again that brilliant argument pops up that one cannot judge someone to be judgmental, prejudiced, moralizing...because that act is then being judgmental, prejudiced, moralizing...

Please grow up and recognize that such childish word games are devoid os substance.

Thank you.

This has been a public service announcement brought to you by someone who is not quite as idiotic as you.

Sorry, Stupidity, but for some nothing is forbidden (except to forbid what they dislike). You can dismiss this as another word game, but I think the "must not condemn attitude" is lame.

I'd like to air a grievance with the dudely habit deliberately misunderstanding refusal. You know, when men suddenly experience an utterly confounding ambiguity in standard modes of refusal that, in all non-boink-related contexts, are completely transparent? This purposeful denial of women’s humanity, it’s pretty much the nub of patriarchal oppression.

I’d like to ask the reader to do a brief mental exercise. (If you’d rather not, just skip to the next paragraph.) I’d like you to remember the last time you found it difficult to give an explicit “no” to somebody in a non-sexual context. Maybe they asked you to do them a favour, or to join them for a drink. Did you speak up and say, outright, “No”? Did you apologise for your “no”? Did you qualify it and say, “Oh, I’m sorry, I can’t make it today“? If you gave an outright “no”, what privileged positions do you occupy in society, and how does your answer differ from the answers of people occupying more marginalised positions?

This form of refusal was analysed in 1999 by Kitzinger and Frith (K&F) in Just Say No? The Use of Conversation Analysis in Developing a Feminist Perspective on Sexual Refusal. Despite the seeming ambiguity in question/refusal acts like, “We were wondering if you wanted to come over Saturday for dinner”, “Well, uhh, it’d be great but we promised Carol already”, they are widely understood by the participants as straightforward refusals.

K&F conclude by saying that, “For men to claim [in a sexual context] that they do not ‘understand’ such refusals to be refusals (because, for example, they do not include the word ‘no’) is to lay claim to an astounding and implausible ignorance of normative conversational patterns

Especially intriguing is the notion that the unequivocal “no” is the exclusive purview of privilege.

Actually its not ignorance there are many people who agree with me. It is

impossible to define a concept of "good".

It was "not bad" to Adam Lanza to brutally murder scores of innocent children.

There is no standard on which to judge him on. It was "not bad" to Ted Bundy

to kidnap and rape women. I acknowledge that these are extreme example however they illustrate my point.

Consider the issue of capital punishment. This is a subject of constant disagreement, because everyone has different moral values, thus a true standard can't be defined.

As for secular moralism

"Consequentialism is the class of normative ethical theories holding that the consequences of one's conduct are the ultimate basis for any judgment about the rightness of that conduct. Thus, from a consequentialist standpoint, a morally right act (or omission) is one that will produce a GOOD OUTCOME , or consequence."

Again you can't define good without a reference point. What might be good for me might be bad for you. I could go on but I have made my point.

Math is fun wrote:

Actually its not ignorance there are many people who agree with me. It is

impossible to define a concept of "good".

It was "not bad" to Adam Lanza to brutally murder scores of innocent children.

There is no standard on which to judge him on.

Only religious nut jobs agree that religion is a requirement for morality. Centuries ago the Christians thought the Earth was flat and the planets and stars revolved around the Earth. I suppose you believe this also.

I'm done with you. Not interested in a dialog with in idiot or troll.

webfoot wrote:Centuries ago the Christians thought the Earth was flat and the planets and stars revolved around the Earth. I suppose you believe this also.

Ummm...are you forgetting that it was the Bible itself which first posited that the world was round?

Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers."

TrackCoach wrote:

No body is perfect and perhaps if she did not have a legacy to protect, lots of people who looked up to her, if she was in need of money and didn't have daughter and a husband...perhaps them I could understand. Under the current situation, she made a mistake, a big mistake and should suffer the consequences for the hurt, shame and disappoint she has become to the running community, her family and to herself.

...I really can't see this any other way

You aren't thinking it through.

She herself is saying it is a mistake Now, because she got outed. Read her alter ego's comments on her escorts profile and you can see she didn't think it was a mistake after the first experience. And I bet if she wasn't outed, she would never think the experience was a mistake. She kept at it for a year.

She did this for what people call her "kink." And what others might call her getting her erotic excitement needs met.

Eventually, one of these people who gets outed...some Eliot Spitzer or whomever is going to say "you know, I just wasn't satisfied in my marriage, and I thought this was the best way to go about fulfilling my sexual needs and fantasies.

Millions and millions and millions of Americans pursue their sexual fantasies every year. And if you talk about it openly in America, you are considered a freak. So...in just about every major US city you have an alternative sexual community...and an underground sexual community.

People find sex exciting (duh) and different people find different things sexually exciting. We also are a nation of prudes or people jealous that SFH pursued those sexual dreams.

Personally, I can't imagine being female and pursuing what she did. On the other hand, if you live in BF Wisconsin, what are you going to do? People also have different sexual motors...both physically and mentally. These are complex phenomena we are dealing with her, and she is in one of the worst "civilized" countries for finding understanding.

To you religious folk: You don't like what she did? Then don't do it. It is funny, Christianity states things about not casting the first stone, and to judge not, and yet...here are a bunch of Christians racing on their high horse to judge this woman. How do you think Christ would have handled it? Oh, wait...there is a story in the bible about how he DID handle it. Take a clue.

The worst thing that could happen to Suzy is that she get a shrink that is Christian, or conservative, or in any way has shame and guilt ideas around sex.

As for the prostitution angle, I don't think she did anything wrong, it is the laws that are wrong.

John O'Donnell wrote:

I read the open letter as far as the point where it told Suzy she was born into one of the societies in the world that is most judgemental when it comes to women's sexual expression, or words to that effect. Without making any moral judgement, the author lost me at that point.

Really?, Pick up a newspaper. There are any number of societies around the world where women can't leave the house without having their entire body covered head to foot, and where a woman can be stoned to death for having sex out of wedlock. Hyperbole doesn't strengthen your argument; it weakens your credibility.

Listen, I didn't want to write a novel covering every single culture and country in the world.

So I didn't say something like "Suzy was born into one of the more shaming societies in the anglosphere / Western world when it comes to female sexual expression."

-- Your argument is weakened by the fact that you had to resort to absurd reductionism.

Oatmealforme wrote:

Perhaps, you should also address the same letter to Tiger Woods, Arnold Schwarzenegger, John Edwards, Al Gore,Leann Rimes etc. It's exciting; so just do it.

AL GORE didn't cheat on his wife, they decided to divorce.

As to the other men on the list...

This is what I believe, I believe that prostitution as a crime is wrong.

Most studies show that most citizens think prostitution should not be a crime.

As for men like Tiger Woods, this is what I think, if you are going to be a player...don't involve having a marriage. Just be a single dude and have your sexual adventures until you are truly ready to settle down.

Ideally Suzy should have gotten a divorce before pursuing this fantasy / stress relief activity.

There are real problems in the world.

They can find a way to insulate the kid from the story, and they can home school the kid, and they can just flat be honest with the kid "some people believe this way, some believe that way, and I needed to pursue this, or so I thought, and it didn't work out well, and people can still move forward and make good lives for themselves...yadda.

It's like some people are more angry and Barbie turning into a whore, than they are at Regina Jacobs stealing titles from Suzy.

Take it from a human behavior perspective, people have always done these things, and they always will...condemn them..that does nothing, just drives them underground.

There have been ancestral societies where prostitution was rampant and also punishable by death, so what they did is they did it in disguise and created secret clubs where no one ever told the police...and because half the police where being prostitutes too...both men and women.

The people who have been raging about "How could she do this to her 7 year old daughter?" Well the real worry is the people who would lay what the mother did onto the 7 year old daughters psyche. I mean, who's gonna tell her and at exactly what age? And if she is brought up right she won't be a prude.

The twenty something generation these days...is massively free and open about sex. Hook ups. Porn, porn inspired group sex. This stuff has been going on a long time.

A friend of mine in high school, told me a few year later, that a year or so after I graduated our high school practically invented sex parties. It is just Human Behavior.

I hope she had a great time, treasures her memories, and finds a way to have a life and an erotic life in balance and in alignment with her tastes and desires...and not all this repressed American nonsense.

Do you honestly believe this stuff or are you just delusional? Yes this will most likely affect her daughters life. No she is not going to treasure her memories of sleeping with men for money. People do things that are instantly gratifying and in this case, boosted her ego as she aged and was losing her spotlight. But she will not treasure these memories; they will haunt her the rest of her life after she realizes what she has done. Please keep remembering she is a married woman with a child and is looked to as a role model. She was not a single 20 something with no responsibilities. Like it or not, most people will not be able to look to her as a role model and that will be tough for her to handle.

Treasure her memories? Are you for real. Do you think Tiger Woods is treasuring his memories of cheating on his wife and having his life crash down on him and losing the respect of the majority of his fans. Instant gratification that deep down you know is wrong does not bring treasured memories, it only brings guilt and thoughts of what if.

There is ZERO excuse for being a prostitute...ZERO, especially when married and having a 7 year old daughter. The reason our world is so messed up right now is the complete lack of moral integrity, and lack of accountability for ones actions and how it affects our society. It's always someone else's fault and that has to stop.

I feel terrible for her 7 year old daughter and husband who's life she has so negatively affected for the rest of their lives. What she did was one of the most selfish acts someone could do, especially considering money was involved. There are plenty of people who live with anxiety and depression everyday who have learned to navigate life's ups and downs.

ATM, ATM, ATM!

Suzy I will pay top $ to go ATM on you! Let us know when you are back in Vegas baby doll!

Bravo. Well said and good on you for stating a reasonable point of view.

What SFH does with her own time whether or not some see it as a 'problem' is none of anyone's business.

Let ye who is free from sin cast the first stone.

Merry Christmas.

Nubbins wrote:

Bravo. Well said and good on you for stating a reasonable point of view.

What SFH does with her own time whether or not some see it as a 'problem' is none of anyone's business.

Let ye who is free from sin cast the first stone.

Merry Christmas.

Jesus also told the woman caught in adultery not to sin again.

You're right. There is absolute agreement among religious people as to what's right or wrong; afterall, God gives them all the same orders and no one ca mistake His voice.

yesstiles wrote:

webfoot wrote:Centuries ago the Christians thought the Earth was flat and the planets and stars revolved around the Earth. I suppose you believe this also.

Ummm...are you forgetting that it was the Bible itself which first posited that the world was round?

Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers."

Huh! I didn't know the Earth was a circle.

Isaiah 40:22 wrote: "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers."]/b]

I fed my grasshoppers naked credit default swaps and they prospered.

info wrote:

There is ZERO excuse for being a prostitute...ZERO,

What is the problem with being a prostitute? If I want to put myself out there to have sex with strangers, and both parties are consenting, then whats the problem? It's not hurting any one and both people are happy. The prostitute is happy to get paid and the other person paid for a service. Try entering the 21st century.

Still nowhere near convinced that hooking (with no emotional attachment-strictly binezz) is worse in a family contex than cheating with an emotional attachment to the fellow cheatee. Found a business card once on my dad's desk with the name of a massage parlor. After the initial shock and curiosity, nothing came of it.

Blythe Masters wrote:

Isaiah 40:22 wrote: "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers."]/b]

I fed my grasshoppers naked credit default swaps and they prospered.

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