A question for old timers.

Orville: I am sending him a note today making reference to this thread. He should chuckle over it.

With yours and Hodgie's permission that is, otherwise I'll have to send it to Peter Wallan at THE HOCKOMOCK SWAMP RAT magazine, where innuendo and rumor are stock in trade.

Cheers.

The sport of distance running sure is great fun!

Bump.

Desert rodent (?!): I'm fortunate that I live in a city like Minneapolis with pretty nice trails to run on. It's nothing like Boulder, CO, for example, but I don't have 5,000 foot altitude to contend with either! Ironically, we live right on Lake Harriet in Minneapolis which is the hot bed for running, blading, etc. ("the lakes"); yet often I drive a couple of miles to run on dirt trails. The asphalt trails around the lakes create havoc on my abused body, especially knees and lower back. Not very "green" of me to drive to run, I guess, is it? (Maybe I will be like Al Gore and trade some energy credits !) I really like my trails for running, these days. Guess maybe I trained too much on the roads in my Tiger Pinto's; 5 oz. with no cushion! Regarding winter running in Minnesota, actually I prefer winter to the heat of summer. Yes, Minnesota can be hot and humid. I really like 20-40 degrees (plus!), as long as the footing isn't too icy. Anything colder than zero, I may opt for the indoor track or the dreaded treamill. I used to take a lot of pride in training through Minnesota winters and felt that it gave us a little edge when going out to Boston, for example, in April. Now, I guess I'm getting softer and will go indoors if terribly cold or icy. Summers seem to create the most challenge for me, if I can't get out before 9-10:00 AM. I always have preferred cool to cold weather for running!! Good running, STEVE

desert rodent wrote:

Steve Hoag, is the environment you run in crucial to your maintaining a running regimen? i mean, would you have quit if you didn't have interesting/runner friendly trails to run on.

Also, do you shut down for Minnesota winters, and only run late spring thru fall?

Thanks.

Orville, I was surprised to hear about your coronary scare. I think we old-time distance guys feel we are immune to that. Of course, we aren't. Those crazy resting pulses we had when we were young, now seem to frighten cardiolodgists. One I went to, thought I needed a PACEMAKER, until I told him about my distance running!! It sure sounds like you were/are in very good company with your long runs... cardiologists! It seems like you have things back in place with the cardioversion. I think that for me Ron Daws' early death from a heart-attack in 1992 was a wake-up call. If Ron could die from heart failure at 55, anyone could. Later, we found out that Ron had a lot of arterial blockage that caused him to suffer the fatal attack. (He would struggle some days to run, and yet two days before he died, he ran 3 hours of trails and everyone was saying how great he looked.) We also believe that there was some history of heart problems in his family; his father died at a very early age, and that may mave been heart-related. Anyway, keep doing what you are doing. Those long runs sound pretty impressive and sounds like you enjoy them! SH

Thanks Steve,

My "running" is often really slow jogging with even some walking some days.

My father and my brother both died of heart attacks at age 53 so I guess I am doing OK. I do know that, because of running and the friends I have made in the sport, each day is more fun than the last one. Those of us born in 1936 had a life expectancy of 59.7 years when we were born.

You talked of winter running. I have been there and done that but I do not believe I would be running today if I had stayed in Northern or even Southern Ontario. I will not go back to visit in the winter. I hate temperatures under 60 degrees.

One of the Doctors that finished ahead of me today has been running with our Sunday group since the late 1960s and is looking forward to turning 80 in October because he gets to ski free from then on.

The more I think about this thread the more I realize that there are a lot more long-time runners than I realized. Many long-time runners compete and many don't.

Bump.

Bump

Orville:

I had two episodes of atrail fib - once in '81 and the other in '91. Both were in September - which, in Miami, meant VERY hot and humid - and both were on Saturdays when we'd done our long run around dawn and then I'd done some yard work. Got very dehydrated. And, as I recall, in both cases i drank a lot of iced coffee (caffeine effect?) after.

After the first episode I had all sorts of tests including treadmill. Cardiologist cleared me and in early November I ran probably my best (and last) marathon: 2:32:30 in New York at age 44. By '91 (2nd episode) I was running less but still ran Nat'l Masters 10K the next year and got 2nd in 50+ behind (by a bit over a minute) Bob Schul.

No problems since. No running now, as I said in an earlier post, due to hip replacement two years ago.

Cardiologists never determined the cause of my atrial fib bu, as you can guess from my telling of it, I think it was a result of getting so dehydrated and then guzzling caffeine.

Wasn't Ken Mueller's daughter a top marathoner? I seem to recall she might have dipped under 2:40 in the mid-80's?

Thank you for posting that information SouthernSun. I learned much from it. 2:32 at age 44 is an impressive marathon! I am in Southern California and do get dehydrated too often. I do not drink coffee and seldom caffeine but I feel that the allergies and enlarged prostate that I have do not help. So far all of the cases of atrial flutter and/or atrial fibrillation I know of were in runners who lived in hot climates. I will discuss that with my buddies, the cardiologists. The only reason I am a little concerned about having such a problem is because of the increase in the chances of having a stroke.

She was a DIII all-american, won the Grandma's Marathon, won the Dublin (Ireland) Marathon, was in the first US women's Marathon Trials and has won a lot of other races.

I don't know her marathon PR.

Bump

[quote]Steve Hoag wrote:

. I think that for me Ron Daws' early death from a heart-attack in 1992 was a wake-up call. If Ron could die from heart failure at 55, anyone could.

I met Ron in the mid 70s when he was 'staff' on a running camp I went to in Colorado. Camp Crockett; up in the mountains outside of Pueblo. He was a humble and friendly guy that always had time to talk and run with the younger guys. I do remember that his training runs were at a 'slower than you would think' pace for his level of runner; but then again, the college and high school kids at the camp would go tearing off on runs only to end up walking when the altitude and hilly trails got to them.

yes, Ron was a very approachable, fun guy to run with. He always would start his long runs at a very slow pace. However, midway through a 25- mile run, he would pick it up and we younger "hotshots", would slow down or walk. He was absolutely without pretense. I always said Ron would race the same in Mexico City ('68 Olympics) or a local fun run. He was always striving to run the best he could; didn't have alot of speed. His talent was being able to outwork and out-train faster runners. BTW, Ron loved Camp Crockett where he met and worked with his idol, Arthur Lydiard.

he was a nice guy wrote:

[quote]Steve Hoag wrote:

. I think that for me Ron Daws' early death from a heart-attack in 1992 was a wake-up call. If Ron could die from heart failure at 55, anyone could.

He was a humble and friendly guy that always had time to talk and run with the younger guys. I do remember that his training runs were at a 'slower than you would think' pace for his level of runner; but then again, the college and high school kids at the camp would go tearing off on runs only to end up walking when the altitude and hilly trails got to them.

he was a nice guy wrote:

[quote]Steve Hoag wrote:

. I think that for me Ron Daws' early death from a heart-attack in 1992 was a wake-up call. If Ron could die from heart failure at 55, anyone could.

I met Ron in the mid 70s when he was 'staff' on a running camp I went to in Colorado. Camp Crockett; up in the mountains outside of Pueblo. He was a humble and friendly guy that always had time to talk and run with the younger guys. I do remember that his training runs were at a 'slower than you would think' pace for his level of runner; but then again, the college and high school kids at the camp would go tearing off on runs only to end up walking when the altitude and hilly trails got to them.

I was at that camp in 1973 and recall Daws's advice to slow down the long runs. J.J. Griffin was there, and he had just run 8:57 for two miles as a senior in high school. He was the guy every other high school runner wanted to hang with. Daws very politely suggested to J.J. that he might want to do his long runs slower than he had been. He was very approachable. We would go into town to play foosball and eat ice cream. As I recall, Ron had the notion that a runner could eat whatever he wanted.

Daws inspired a lot of guys like me because, like us, his Track credentials were modest, especially for an Olympian. So if he could do it, maybe.... I had the additional awareness that he was almost exactly my age (born less than 2 months before me).

I ran in races with Daws twice. In Feb. 1973 it was the West Valley Marathon in San Mateo/Burlingame CA. (Mitch Kingery, age 16, set the national high school record that day: 2:23:47.) My recollection is that Daws ran it partly to assist some physiologists with tests. He wore a small box taped to the small of his back. And, showing his sense of humor, he cut out some cardboard in the shape of a key which he attached to the box, sticking out - making him look like a wind up toy. Still ran a 2:26:58. I was 4:20 behind.

After the race I commiserated with him for having to train in Minnesota cold for a Feb. marathon. He said he preferred it to the heat/humidity I dealt with in South Florida.

When I turned 40 I was really psyched for Masters races. For the first time I was competitive in national competition. In March '79 I won the Masters division of the Jacksonville River Run (now Gate River Run). Daws was 2nd, 1:27 behind. I used to wonder if he'd considered seriously training for Masters races but that getting beaten by a no-name Florida guy gave him 2nd thoughts. Or maybe it was having a "girl", a young Joan Benoit, some 30 seconds up on him that did it. I suspect it was the first time a woman had beaten him. (Women's distance running, like Masters distance running, was still in its infancy where fast times were concerned). Benoit won her first Boston a few weeks later. Memories....

Curious, the West Valley Marathon in California; did you run this in 1972? Did you happen to run into a Ian Jackson & a Rick Delgado? Only know of these two through reading a running book featuring yoga. A great read that was!

Also met Ron Daws briefly in 1982 down in Portland, Oregon the day before what used to be the annual Cascade Runoff 15 km....a wonderful event that was!! Ron came across as a real no-nonsense fellow...."A hot day that Boston was two months ago!" "Well, that's running you know!!"

A tragedy he passed so soon before his time. :(

Read all about that marathon in a RW edition in which he wore a HRM? Something which made him look like some kind of happening lab experiment.

victoria, b.c., canada, runner wrote:

Curious, the West Valley Marathon in California; did you run this in 1972? Did you happen to run into a Ian Jackson & a Rick Delgado? Only know of these two through reading a running book featuring yoga. A great read that was!

Also met Ron Daws briefly in 1982 down in Portland, Oregon the day before what used to be the annual Cascade Runoff 15 km....a wonderful event that was!! Ron came across as a real no-nonsense fellow...."A hot day that Boston was two months ago!" "Well, that's running you know!!"

A tragedy he passed so soon before his time. :(

Read all about that marathon in a RW edition in which he wore a HRM? Something which made him look like some kind of happening lab experiment.

Only ran it in '73 but I recognize the names. I did run other west cost marathons: Mission Bay, Ave. of the Giants, Seaside.