Ritz, by the way, has made similar comments.
When did Maree give up his American citizenship? I hadn't heard of that.
Ritz, by the way, has made similar comments.
When did Maree give up his American citizenship? I hadn't heard of that.
Ive never heard anything so bigotted and ignorant than this quote from Scott.
Just for that I hope Lagat gets the AR and shoves it in Scotts "real" American face.
Hey Steve, I know its aweful to lose your record to a "fake" American, but I guess you're cool with these same fake Americans dying in GWS fake war in Iraq right??
idiot.
Mtn Dew wrote:
Ritz, by the way, has made similar comments.
When did Maree give up his American citizenship? I hadn't heard of that.
I assume he was talking about the mile, but Maree probably sticks in his craw, too.
Tommy2Nuts wrote:
Ive never heard anything so bigotted and ignorant than this quote from Scott.
Just for that I hope Lagat gets the AR and shoves it in Scotts "real" American face.
Hey Steve, I know its aweful to lose your record to a "fake" American, but I guess you're cool with these same fake Americans dying in GWS fake war in Iraq right??
idiot.
You must be kidding...
hes responding to merconary runners who have no loyalty to anyone or any country just money.
Oh and one more thing Stevie...my prediction is that within the next decade MOST American mid/long distance records will be held by "fake" Americans.
How will you ever sleep at night???
I don't have a problem with anyone becoming a U.S. citizen, and it doesn't really bother me when someone becomes a citizen and sets American records.
But think of this situation from a Kenyan's (or any non-Americans) perspective. When another Kenyan becomes a U.S. citizen and breaks an American runner do think that the Kenyans are thinking "Man, those Americans are really getting fast." I don't think they are. They are probably laughing at us because their people keep gaining American citizenship and breaking our records.
I don't think Lagat setting American records is giving America much respect in the running community. Most people realize that its not a true American setting the record.
What I think we should do is send Justin Gatlin and some other sprinters over to Kenya, let them live there for a while and gain Kenyan citizenship, and then have them smash all the Kenyan sprint records.
A couple of things.
Funny that the article didn't mention Lagat's failure to mention he became a citizen before the 2004 Olympics.
"reality" started to hit on a point earlier, about the idea of national records. Why have national records? To show the best achievement by people of ostensibly similar backgrounds and upbringings. People who lived the same life you did, with socioeconomic factors creating many exceptions. Or is it to show the best achievement of people sharing one thing - citizenship to a particular geographic area and set of ideas/beliefs.
Some subscribe to the first, that it is about the experiences and upbringing that comes from living in the country, which is why they are much more okay with Meb setting records than Lagat. Others subscribe to the 2nd, that as long as they are proud to belong to whatever country they are now a citizen of, enough to have changed their citizenship from whatever it used to be, they are worthy of such honors as national records.
We're talking track and field, not politics.
So I guess some seem to think it's OK for every American distance running record to be set by those without U.S. nationality?
Maybe we can get Paula Radcliffe over here and set some women's world records, better yet maybe Paul Tergat will leave Kenya next and we can get the world record as well.
If we play our cards right, why don't be seek out the top athletes in the world in all events, offer them citizenships then we can own all the world records and call them American records.
Sure, I agree I have no problem with sending some US sprinters over to become Kenyans....I just dont think they can handle the lifestyle.
BTW, Lagat becoming American and getting the AR (hopefully) is quite different from Kenyans becoming Qatari or Bahraini JUST to run for them...most people dont believe for a second these guys are Qatari citizens. They were BOUGHT to break records. No one is doing that for the US. So I dont believe when Lagat breaks an AR people see this are odd or strange. Lagat Meb Abdi etc are fully employable in other fields as well.
Tommy2Nuts wrote:
Oh and one more thing Stevie...my prediction is that within the next decade MOST American mid/long distance records will be held by "fake" Americans.
How will you ever sleep at night???
Hey son, quit being a jerk-off. I predict you will be a complete disappointment to your father and me. It's unfortunate you're suffering from anal-cranial inversion.
Pull your head out of your butt and give Steve his due. He's right on the money about the American record. I believe you earn it by being born here and staying here. Maree is a classic example of a person taking advantage of the system and then bailing out when it no longer mattered or helped him.
Lagat's American-born son or some other second-generation Kenyan immigrant, will own the record one day, and you'll still be pissing and moaning like the country is going to hell in a handbasket.
If Lagat's son breaks records I will cheer him on (I still cheer for Lagat, but not in the way I do for Webb, Meb, Goucher or Broe).
el hombre wrote:
Some subscribe to the first, that it is about the experiences and upbringing that comes from living in the country, which is why they are much more okay with Meb setting records than Lagat. Others subscribe to the 2nd, that as long as they are proud to belong to whatever country they are now a citizen of, enough to have changed their citizenship from whatever it used to be, they are worthy of such honors as national records.
Sorry, but I subscribe to the "born AND bred" criteria of defining "Americans". Yes other nationalities can come and get "American Citizenship" but I can not view them as American because there parents did not raise them as Americans. In the case of the East Africans...get real. It's obviously easier to become an elite runner for the Kenyans and Ethiopians who were "born AND bred" in their native countries.
I admire Steve Scott for being honest! He is a great man!
hadd about enough wrote:
....
the "American" record means the fastest time run by an American citizen, plain and simple.
....
why the hell do we attach any sort of value to the geographical location you were born and raised? who cares? what i care about is your desire to be american and your willingness to follow the laws that we all follow.
Indeed, why do we attach any importance to National Records in Athletics for any country or event? Because that is a measure of what your countrymen and women can do! What you as a culture and society have acheived.
If a 3:45 miler decided to become a French citizen just because they would set National Records at 1500, Mile, 2K, 3K and maybe 5k and they wanted to live in France, should they do it? No. They can live in France, but they are definitely not French.
It seems that some people grasp this concept automatically and some people don't seem to get and never will, and that is fine. There are more important issues in the world than where the American record holder in the mile grew up.
I agree with Scott though.
I agree with Scott's take, at least emotionally, and that's all that he is expressing.
I would much rather see the AR in the hands of someone who was raised in America. I'm not going to whine about Lagat getting it because those are the rules but I'd still rather see Webb do it, especially because it probably wouldn't even be a PR for Lagat.
However, if Lagat competes for the USA at a major international competition, I will certainly cheer for him. Winning medals while wearing your country's shirt is a way of honoring your country; winning national records is a way of winning honor for yourself, from your country. I think a big part of the Lagat issue in many people's minds is that he opted to race for Kenya when he was a US citizen. It comes across as "he's good enough to win our records but not to win medals for us." I realize that he couldn't have competed for the US in Athens because he would have been suspended by Kenya, but that's what it looks like to a lot of Americans.
i like and admire steve as one of ameria's best ever but i think he is taking the cowardly way out. let him and you and i take the courageous way and say that lagat is a drug using mutt and deserves no record unless he tests clean.
Thank heaven for Steve Scott. It's about TIME that one of our best-of-the-best spoke up on this matter.
Kip Lagat is a very nice man, and so is Coach Li. However, as many others have pointed out, Kenyans aren't stupid. They easily have the greatest depth amongst marathon runners of any country in the world, and yet their athletes realize that only 3 of them can compete on the biggest stage (the Olympics or World Champs).
Guess what, guys? Let's become American citizens!! We can easily make their Olympic team, earning some training stipends and AR bonuses along the way!
Sorry ladies and gentlemen, but Steve Scott was right on the money. How would it be if several of our better NBA players became Ethiopian citizens, because they know that they will never bump LeBron, Wade, and Kobe off the real USA Olympic team? Would the Ethiopian natives on the LetsHoop message board start enthusiastically talking about the resurgence of African basketball, the same way that some of our misguided youngsters on this board have been so proud of Lagat, Meb, Abdi, and Khannouchi? LoL! Guess what, kids? If you remove the "naturalized" American citizens from the all-time top 10 lists of the men's Olympic distance events, you will find that most of the remaining people are from the 80's (or earlier)! Good grief, put down the Xbox controllers and go running!!
Guess what, guys? Let's become American citizens!! We can easily make their Olympic team, earning some training stipends and AR bonuses along the way!
Nice try, but you forget that these foreigners will stay clear of our Olympic Trials which test for drugs. Ask KK, he wouldn't go 1,000 miles near our Olympic Trials for fear of being found out!
Well, yeah, he shows up but then drops out. They don't test the dropouts. Only the qualifiers. Slick....