the only quick way out of this is regime change in RU
UKR is nowhere close to making concessions to RU. Could happen after a few years of this but now we are nowhere close.
Not sure why we're more likely to use nukes now than during previous proxy wars. Did we stop funding the Afghans or Vietnamese or Koreans because we were worried about nukes?
You answer your own question. The stakes are higher than in previous proxy wars because military defeat of Russia probably results in regime change in Russia.
The options seem to be
1) Russia regime change via internal politics, new regime can reach peace settlement without the baggage of starting the war.
2) Military defeat of Russia causing capitulation, which destroys Putin's standing with Russians and probable loss of power.
3) Ukraine conceding land in a peace settlement or military defeat of Ukraine following withdraw of western military support. This could come from fracturing of EU support due to energy supply driven hardship through coming winter and beyond.
It's not apparent how Russia benefits from nuclear escalation, but when Putin position and maybe is life are threatened it's hard to say for certain that he won't knock over the table.
Actually, it's pretty apparent how it benefits Russia. It would break the back of the Ukrainians and force the west to choose between World War 3 and letting Russia have what it wants.
No sane person would choose World War 3 over letting Russia have Ukraine.
The wild card is that Biden is mentally unfit and the morons making his decision for him think like toddlers.
The US has devolved into having one of the worst education systems in the developed world over the last 50 some years and the head of the teachers union is in Ukraine virtue signaling about their education system.
Nothing could more perfectly encapsulate the disease that the Ukrainians cheerleaders in America have.
There's usually at least 20 wars going on in the world at any given moment but the media has only told you people to pretend to care about one of them...
Right. It’s not. Until Ukraine kills a bunch more Russian soldiers, blows up a bunch for Russian tanks, shoots down a bunch more Russian aircraft, and destroys a bunch of Russian infrastructure. The more expediently they can do so, the sooner Russia’s invasion will end. Why do you want to prolong Russia’s invasion?
Wrong. The longer West-Ukraine will fight, the less of West-Ukraine will there be left. This is true to every war.
The only realistic way to end this war soon is to replace Zelensky with somebody, who is not a Western puppet. Donbas is gone either way, it doesn't want to belong to Ukraine since a long time now. Don't even want to mention Crimea, it should have never been gifted to Ukraine in the first place.
West-Ukraine needs to see what they can salvage NOW and just start working even more closely with the EU to invest and rebuild while they still can get a few pennies. EU and US politicians are smart people. They know that more destruction in Ukraine will result in cheaper prices for real estate, land and industrial infrastructure for the EU and US investors.
Wars always create new cheap markets for absorption for otherwise exhausted world economy. Therefore the US will gladly lend a few HIMARS to West-Ukraine to prolong it's agony for as long as they can, so they can privatize half of it later ;)
You answer your own question. The stakes are higher than in previous proxy wars because military defeat of Russia probably results in regime change in Russia.
The options seem to be
1) Russia regime change via internal politics, new regime can reach peace settlement without the baggage of starting the war.
2) Military defeat of Russia causing capitulation, which destroys Putin's standing with Russians and probable loss of power.
3) Ukraine conceding land in a peace settlement or military defeat of Ukraine following withdraw of western military support. This could come from fracturing of EU support due to energy supply driven hardship through coming winter and beyond.
It's not apparent how Russia benefits from nuclear escalation, but when Putin position and maybe is life are threatened it's hard to say for certain that he won't knock over the table.
Actually, it's pretty apparent how it benefits Russia. It would break the back of the Ukrainians and force the west to choose between World War 3 and letting Russia have what it wants.
No sane person would choose World War 3 over letting Russia have Ukraine.
The wild card is that Biden is mentally unfit and the morons making his decision for him think like toddlers.
You are like a bystander cheering for a rapist because you don't like the victim's friends. You are exhibiting the lowest form of human behavior.
LilliPutin could have had the Donbas but he had to get greedy. The first tank that rolled towards Kiyv sealed Little Vlad's place as a warmongering criminal, worse even than W Bush or Lyndon Johnson.
The blood of innocents is on LilliPutin's hands and of those who egg him on.
Sure it might be satisfying in the short term, but in the medium term it makes him and the Kremlin more and more desperate. The stakes for Putin if he loses this war could be his life, and at the very least he would be removed from power (and likely replaced with someone even more militaristic).
So before you continue cheering on Putin's losses, remember that a defeated Putin is a dangerous Putin. If he's cornered, nukes are 100% on the table. Then what?
The only way forward from here is 1) de-escalation through negotiation or ceasefire or 2) massive regime change in Moscow
The other options are NOT GOOD.
the only quick way out of this is regime change in RU
UKR is nowhere close to making concessions to RU. Could happen after a few years of this but now we are nowhere close.
Not sure why we're more likely to use nukes now than during previous proxy wars. Did we stop funding the Afghans or Vietnamese or Koreans because we were worried about nukes?
Some thoughts from Timothy Snyder on how this war could end.
Actually, it's pretty apparent how it benefits Russia. It would break the back of the Ukrainians and force the west to choose between World War 3 and letting Russia have what it wants.
No sane person would choose World War 3 over letting Russia have Ukraine.
The wild card is that Biden is mentally unfit and the morons making his decision for him think like toddlers.
You are like a bystander cheering for a rapist because you don't like the victim's friends. You are exhibiting the lowest form of human behavior.
LilliPutin could have had the Donbas but he had to get greedy. The first tank that rolled towards Kiyv sealed Little Vlad's place as a warmongering criminal, worse even than W Bush or Lyndon Johnson.
The blood of innocents is on LilliPutin's hands and of those who egg him on.
When have I ever cheered for Russia?
You're like a bystander watching a rape happen right in front of you who thinks saying mean things to the rapist without intervening and throwing some cash into the room makes you a good person.
Wrong. The longer West-Ukraine will fight, the less of West-Ukraine will there be left. This is true to every war.
The only realistic way to end this war soon is to replace Zelensky with somebody, who is not a Western puppet. Donbas is gone either way, it doesn't want to belong to Ukraine since a long time now. Don't even want to mention Crimea, it should have never been gifted to Ukraine in the first place.
West-Ukraine needs to see what they can salvage NOW and just start working even more closely with the EU to invest and rebuild while they still can get a few pennies. EU and US politicians are smart people. They know that more destruction in Ukraine will result in cheaper prices for real estate, land and industrial infrastructure for the EU and US investors.
Wars always create new cheap markets for absorption for otherwise exhausted world economy. Therefore the US will gladly lend a few HIMARS to West-Ukraine to prolong it's agony for as long as they can, so they can privatize half of it later ;)
So you want to replace Zelensky with a Russian puppet. Who would that be.
"The Donbas is gone either way, it doesn't want to belong to Ukraine since a long time now."
"I've got news for you friend, North/South Carolina at one point didn't want to be part of America and tried to leave the Union. How well did that work out for them or the rest of the southern traitors?
Everyone knows that, "Right beats Might." Read a history book about war. There are hundreds of examples to choose from.
Overnight shelling cut power to Ukraine's Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, which needs cooling to avoid a meltdown, forcing it to switch to emergency generators, Ukraine's state nuclear company and the U.N. atomic...
So you want to replace Zelensky with a Russian puppet. Who would that be.
"The Donbas is gone either way, it doesn't want to belong to Ukraine since a long time now."
"I've got news for you friend, North/South Carolina at one point didn't want to be part of America and tried to leave the Union. How well did that work out for them or the rest of the southern traitors?
Everyone knows that, "Right beats Might." Read a history book about war. There are hundreds of examples to choose from.
Why Russian puppet? How about someone sane who can see Ukraine's future in working with both the EU and Russia, without having to be involved with NATO.
To be honest, I do not know the history of the US states well, so I will not be arguing about it.
But "Right beats Might" is not what reality looks like and the US is the best proof of that. There is no right or wrong, only strong and weak, winners and losers.
The winners always get to write history and their side always becomes "right".
A bit baffling to listen to grown ups preach about right and wrong. This stuff is for children.
Ukraine is working hard to create a nuclear crisis in Ukraine without Russia's help.
Doesn't fit the Western agenda, dismissed!
Since the UN watchdogs stay quiet about who's shelling the power plant, one can safely assume it's Ukrainians. If it was Russians, we wouldn't hear the end of it on the news.
You are like a bystander cheering for a rapist because you don't like the victim's friends. You are exhibiting the lowest form of human behavior.
LilliPutin could have had the Donbas but he had to get greedy. The first tank that rolled towards Kiyv sealed Little Vlad's place as a warmongering criminal, worse even than W Bush or Lyndon Johnson.
The blood of innocents is on LilliPutin's hands and of those who egg him on.
When have I ever cheered for Russia?
You're like a bystander watching a rape happen right in front of you who thinks saying mean things to the rapist without intervening and throwing some cash into the room makes you a good person.
"Some cash in the room" certainly has the Russian Army on the ropes and looking at the greatest defeat in modern times of a bullying force of supposedly superior weight. This is the only conflict in my 65 years where I have taken a side and the Ukrainian people have done the Western World proud in fending off a bloody czarist invasion.
You are exactly like the weaklings who claimed in the '80s that Reagan would start WWIII and that the Soviet Union was too strong to collapse against Western power. You were wrong then and wrong again today. Both the Soviet Union and LilliPutin's RuSSia are rotten and dying systems that must be defeated then rebuilt like Japan and Germany after WWII.
Right. It’s not. Until Ukraine kills a bunch more Russian soldiers, blows up a bunch for Russian tanks, shoots down a bunch more Russian aircraft, and destroys a bunch of Russian infrastructure. The more expediently they can do so, the sooner Russia’s invasion will end. Why do you want to prolong Russia’s invasion?
Wrong. The longer West-Ukraine will fight, the less of West-Ukraine will there be left. This is true to every war.
The only realistic way to end this war soon is to replace Zelensky with somebody, who is not a Western puppet. Donbas is gone either way, it doesn't want to belong to Ukraine since a long time now. Don't even want to mention Crimea, it should have never been gifted to Ukraine in the first place.
West-Ukraine needs to see what they can salvage NOW and just start working even more closely with the EU to invest and rebuild while they still can get a few pennies. EU and US politicians are smart people. They know that more destruction in Ukraine will result in cheaper prices for real estate, land and industrial infrastructure for the EU and US investors.
Wars always create new cheap markets for absorption for otherwise exhausted world economy. Therefore the US will gladly lend a few HIMARS to West-Ukraine to prolong it's agony for as long as they can, so they can privatize half of it later ;)
You keep repeating TASS talking points without applying any critical thinking. ETH should ask for their degree back.
In polling conducted in January of 2022, less than 1/3rd of the people in Donbas wanted to join Russia. More than 40% wanted to remain part of Ukraine. Your delusions about the people of Donbas wanting to join Russia en masse are just that, delusions.
Wait, so now you're pushing to overthrow a democratically elected leader? Because Putin is an imperialist a-hole with a fragile ego?
Russia needs to see what they can salvage now, before they cross one of NATO's red lines. Because if that happens, Russia will consist of a few square miles in Northern Siberia, while NATO will occupy the rest of The Motherland.
Putin will gladly sacrifice a few tens of thousands of Russia troops, as long as he doesn't actually suffer himself. Hence, the solution is to make Putin suffer. Hopefully as he hangs from a gallows in Red Square.
A different Russia will emerge from this conflict.
The West will ensure Russia loses this conflict with a combination of economic sanctions, military support/funding to Ukraine, and domination of propaganda war.
Then, the West will impose reparation payments, war crime punishments, crimes against humanity punishments and crimes against the environment punishments.
Russia can’t win. They are at war with the entire Western world, which controls more than 80 percent of the world’s wealth and power.
Sucks to be Russian!
Many Russians know this and have already left. Many will follow.
Coordinate error in the Russian army! The invading Russian army shot its own troops and took the first place in the whole world. The invading Russian army, w...
Why Russian puppet? How about someone sane who can see Ukraine's future in working with both the EU and Russia, without having to be involved with NATO.
To be honest, I do not know the history of the US states well, so I will not be arguing about it.
But "Right beats Might" is not what reality looks like and the US is the best proof of that. There is no right or wrong, only strong and weak, winners and losers.
The winners always get to write history and their side always becomes "right".
A bit baffling to listen to grown ups preach about right and wrong. This stuff is for children.
As difficult as is for me to me to admit, you just confirmed my point. In Afghanistan the Americans and allies had the "might." The Afgans had the "rights." I'll let you tell me. Who won that war, the "Right or the Might?"
Now, using a recent historical example, who do you really think is going to win this war between Ukraine and Russia?
A different Russia will emerge from this conflict.
The West will ensure Russia loses this conflict with a combination of economic sanctions, military support/funding to Ukraine, and domination of propaganda war.
Then, the West will impose reparation payments, war crime punishments, crimes against humanity punishments and crimes against the environment punishments.
Russia can’t win. They are at war with the entire Western world, which controls more than 80 percent of the world’s wealth and power.
Sucks to be Russian!
Many Russians know this and have already left. Many will follow.
Eh I dunno. Russians seem pretty satisfied with their ethno-centric semi-fascist leadership. I don't see RU changing much. The world is not generally able to dislodge tyrants without invading and chasing out the tyrant. Sanctions don't work and UKR is not going to invade RU.
Why Russian puppet? How about someone sane who can see Ukraine's future in working with both the EU and Russia, without having to be involved with NATO.
To be honest, I do not know the history of the US states well, so I will not be arguing about it.
But "Right beats Might" is not what reality looks like and the US is the best proof of that. There is no right or wrong, only strong and weak, winners and losers.
The winners always get to write history and their side always becomes "right".
A bit baffling to listen to grown ups preach about right and wrong. This stuff is for children.
As difficult as is for me to me to admit, you just confirmed my point. In Afghanistan the Americans and allies had the "might." The Afgans had the "rights." I'll let you tell me. Who won that war, the "Right or the Might?"
Now, using a recent historical example, who do you really think is going to win this war between Ukraine and Russia?
I'm not sure how to define right and wrong in many wars, but clearly giant goliaths of nations have lost foreign wars against smaller opponents, on foreign turf. Vietnam, Afghanistan twice. Korea wasn't a case of a giant nation subduing a smaller one.
So there is ample precedent for UKR to defend its turf until RU gives up and goes away.
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