This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
First off, you pulled up data for those 18+. Next, the CDC is run by people who believe math is racist. My five-year-old nephews could count better than the imbeciles at the CDC. They haven't had accurate data on COVID since day 1. Two years into the pandemic and they were still lost and trying to obscure data from the public, by their own admission:
What data would you accept? Look at the magnitude of the difference there… are you accusing outright fabrication?
I'm saying that the large disparity in data between a place like NY and places like Ontario, Israel and the UK is attributable to the fact that the state health boards cannot link vaccination status with COVID outcomes for most of those outside of the public health system due to HIPAA rules, so deaths, hospitalizations, etc. of vaccinated individuals with private insurance are lumped with the unvaccinated, which makes the unvaccinated mortality, hospitalization and infection rates appear much worse than the reality. Israel, the UK and Canada do not have this same disconnect, which is why their data does not look as grim as the CDC data. Harambe was pulling up data from the CDC on those 18+. If I pull up data from the UKHSA during weeks 8-12 of 2021 here is the result:
Vaxxed Case Rate: 2,335.17 Unvaxxed Case Rate: 760.74 Vaxxed rate > 3X
First off, you pulled up data for those 18+. Next, the CDC is run by people who believe math is racist. My five-year-old nephews could count better than the imbeciles at the CDC. They haven't had accurate data on COVID since day 1. Two years into the pandemic and they were still lost and trying to obscure data from the public, by their own admission:
You can change the data to younger groups. I trust you can manipulate the graph settings at least as well as CDC can manipulate the data.
Hospitalization data does not suffer from the linking issue as much as positive test data. There's no doubt the vaccine protects against hospitalization. Why would the vaccine magically stop working in younger people? Makes no sense.
What data would you accept? Look at the magnitude of the difference there… are you accusing outright fabrication?
I'm saying that the large disparity in data between a place like NY and places like Ontario, Israel and the UK is attributable to the fact that the state health boards cannot link vaccination status with COVID outcomes for most of those outside of the public health system due to HIPAA rules, so deaths, hospitalizations, etc. of vaccinated individuals with private insurance are lumped with the unvaccinated, which makes the unvaccinated mortality, hospitalization and infection rates appear much worse than the reality. Israel, the UK and Canada do not have this same disconnect, which is why their data does not look as grim as the CDC data. Harambe was pulling up data from the CDC on those 18+. If I pull up data from the UKHSA during weeks 8-12 of 2021 here is the result:
Vaxxed Case Rate: 2,335.17 Unvaxxed Case Rate: 760.74 Vaxxed rate > 3X
Vaxxed Death Rate: 10.36 Unvaxxed Death Rate: 3.65 Vaxxed rate > 2.8X
You must mean 2022 right? If these data are really from 2021 then the Simpson’s paradox effect on early-stage vaccine rollout was surely massive. It’s hard to tell if you’re being serious quoting data from the first 3 months of vaccine rollout.
Also I remember when Ontario was updating their stats weekly and you refused to accept them also. Or when the only datapoints you discussed were from 3 small counties in Colorado. It’s just a pattern with you. Ignore and hand wave anything but the most fitting data for your prior. If we look at the bulk of data globally it’s hard to make any of the claims you are trying.
What data would you accept? Look at the magnitude of the difference there… are you accusing outright fabrication?
I'm saying that the large disparity in data between a place like NY and places like Ontario, Israel and the UK is attributable to the fact that the state health boards cannot link vaccination status with COVID outcomes for most of those outside of the public health system due to HIPAA rules, so deaths, hospitalizations, etc. of vaccinated individuals with private insurance are lumped with the unvaccinated, which makes the unvaccinated mortality, hospitalization and infection rates appear much worse than the reality. Israel, the UK and Canada do not have this same disconnect, which is why their data does not look as grim as the CDC data. Harambe was pulling up data from the CDC on those 18+. If I pull up data from the UKHSA during weeks 8-12 of 2021 here is the result:
Vaxxed Case Rate: 2,335.17 Unvaxxed Case Rate: 760.74 Vaxxed rate > 3X
Vaxxed Death Rate: 10.36 Unvaxxed Death Rate: 3.65 Vaxxed rate > 2.8X
Oh god not the uncorrected raw rates again (from a year++ ago?). Vaccines did not fail in the UK, protection against severe disease remained far higher than the raw, unadjusted rates would suggest. This has been proven by many studies.
There is really no dispute about that. You can call it 'BS' because you don't like that COVID is a risk, but that doesn't change the facts.
You can try to hide behind raw hospitalization rates but that's not fair. It's like saying 'well less kids died in car crashes in 2020 so we can accept some additional COVID mortality!' Immoral and wrong.
Also, It's proven that vaccination on-top of a single infection is far superior -- especially if that infection was Omicron.
The specific argument about bivalent boosting and it's efficacy against mild disease is, I agree, more nuanced but has nothing to do with preventing hospitalizations. Young adults who got 3x shots are much better protected against hospitalization than those who didn't.
The CDC lost all credibility when they intentionally withheld data for those 18-49 in February in order to push their booster campaign.
At a Senate committee hearing, Dr. Anthony Fauci saidthere is "not enough data" to show whether COVID-19 booster shots lowered death or hospitalization rates for kids.
I'm saying that the large disparity in data between a place like NY and places like Ontario, Israel and the UK is attributable to the fact that the state health boards cannot link vaccination status with COVID outcomes for most of those outside of the public health system due to HIPAA rules, so deaths, hospitalizations, etc. of vaccinated individuals with private insurance are lumped with the unvaccinated, which makes the unvaccinated mortality, hospitalization and infection rates appear much worse than the reality. Israel, the UK and Canada do not have this same disconnect, which is why their data does not look as grim as the CDC data. Harambe was pulling up data from the CDC on those 18+. If I pull up data from the UKHSA during weeks 8-12 of 2021 here is the result:
Vaxxed Case Rate: 2,335.17 Unvaxxed Case Rate: 760.74 Vaxxed rate > 3X
Vaxxed Death Rate: 10.36 Unvaxxed Death Rate: 3.65 Vaxxed rate > 2.8X
You must mean 2022 right? If these data are really from 2021 then the Simpson’s paradox effect on early-stage vaccine rollout was surely massive. It’s hard to tell if you’re being serious quoting data from the first 3 months of vaccine rollout.
Also I remember when Ontario was updating their stats weekly and you refused to accept them also. Or when the only datapoints you discussed were from 3 small counties in Colorado. It’s just a pattern with you. Ignore and hand wave anything but the most fitting data for your prior. If we look at the bulk of data globally it’s hard to make any of the claims you are trying.
He is the one that brought up 18+ data in a discussion about vaccinating young healthy people. I simply brought up similar data from the UK. If you prefer 18-49 (to decrease the dreaded Simpson's paradox), I can give you that as well:
Vaxxed Case Rate: 2,682.18 Unvaxxed Case Rate: 813.17 Vaxxed rate > 3.3X Vaxxed Hosp. Rate: 6.21 Unvaxxed Case Rate: 6.90 Unvaxxed rate > 1.1X Vaxxed Death Rate: 0.53 Unvaxxed Death Rate: 0.40 Vaxxed rate > 1.4X
I always accepted the Ontario data, heck, I was one of the first to report it on here.
You must mean 2022 right? If these data are really from 2021 then the Simpson’s paradox effect on early-stage vaccine rollout was surely massive. It’s hard to tell if you’re being serious quoting data from the first 3 months of vaccine rollout.
Also I remember when Ontario was updating their stats weekly and you refused to accept them also. Or when the only datapoints you discussed were from 3 small counties in Colorado. It’s just a pattern with you. Ignore and hand wave anything but the most fitting data for your prior. If we look at the bulk of data globally it’s hard to make any of the claims you are trying.
He is the one that brought up 18+ data in a discussion about vaccinating young healthy people. I simply brought up similar data from the UK. If you prefer 18-49 (to decrease the dreaded Simpson's paradox), I can give you that as well:
Vaxxed Case Rate: 2,682.18 Unvaxxed Case Rate: 813.17 Vaxxed rate > 3.3X Vaxxed Hosp. Rate: 6.21 Unvaxxed Case Rate: 6.90 Unvaxxed rate > 1.1X Vaxxed Death Rate: 0.53 Unvaxxed Death Rate: 0.40 Vaxxed rate > 1.4X
I always accepted the Ontario data, heck, I was one of the first to report it on here.
can you link to the data you’re using please? I don’t really believe you’re using Mar-May 2021 as a datapoint in this discussion. Can you address that?
People who received two or three doses of a messenger RNA COVID-19 vaccine were more likely to contract COVID-19 with symptoms, according to a new study. Researchers found that the vaccinated had higher odds of experiencing symptomatic COVID-19 than the unvaccinated, even if they had received a booster shot on top of a primary series. Researchers with the University of Utah and other institutions examined health care personnel, first responders, and other so-called frontline workers from Dec. 14, 2020, and April 19, 2022. The participants submitted self-collected nasal swabs that were collected on a weekly basis, as well as when participants experienced signs of illness. Of those infected with COVID-19 since Omicron became the dominant virus strain in late 2021, 109 were unvaccinated and 634 were vaccinated. And of those, 85 unvaccinated people were symptomatic, compared with 216 people who received a primary series of a messenger RNA (mRNA) immunization—two doses of either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines—and 327 people who received a booster in addition to the initial doses. Researchers calculated odds ratios for symptomatic COVID-19 and other outcomes, and found that unvaccinated people were the least likely to experience symptomatic COVID-19. People who received a primary series were more likely to experience fever or chill in the early months after vaccination, but later became less likely, including after receiving a booster. Vaccinated people also initially had a longer duration of symptoms. Unvaccinated people had more symptoms, were more likely to receive medical care, and missed more work time. The results differed from during the Delta era, when unvaccinated people were more likely to have symptomatic COVID-19, have fever or chills, and have a longer duration of symptoms. The study was published by the Journal of the American Medical Association.
Because forcing people to take an untested drug therapy is democracy
Unkle/Carmine/Newname ivermectin, hcq, dirt, and all the other kooky "treatments" antivaxxers have idolized are the real untested drug therapies. They didn't do jack sh!t for treating covid and were simply cash cows for soulless antivax grifters.
Because forcing people to take an untested drug therapy is democracy
Unkle/Carmine/Newname ivermectin, hcq, dirt, and all the other kooky "treatments" antivaxxers have idolized are the real untested drug therapies. They didn't do jack sh!t for treating covid and were simply cash cows for soulless antivax grifters.
Says the guy who thinks forcing people to take this untested drug therapy is democracy.
Because forcing people to take an untested drug therapy is democracy
Unkle/Carmine/Newname ivermectin, hcq, dirt, and all the other kooky "treatments" antivaxxers have idolized are the real untested drug therapies. They didn't do jack sh!t for treating covid and were simply cash cows for soulless antivax grifters.
During the pandemic, there was a nice transfer of wealth from the dummies, antivaxxers, and victims of scams to the elites. Rand Paul is an eye doctor, but the antivaxxers listen to him grandstand and BS and think he‘s beating Fauci with what he is saying even though all the doctors are laughing at Rand Paul.
Because forcing people to take an untested drug therapy is democracy
Unkle/Carmine/Newname ivermectin, hcq, dirt, and all the other kooky "treatments" antivaxxers have idolized are the real untested drug therapies. They didn't do jack sh!t for treating covid and were simply cash cows for soulless antivax grifters.
You're so "wise" for believing what the tv and politicians say, rather than what they do. Bravo! You dodged the "horse dewormer" that all the key vaxxer MDs, scientists, and politicians were taking on the sly, while demanding it baned for the general public and that the plebs be given Remdesivir + vent = death:
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