Explosive New York Times article: Mary Cain breaks silence about NOP

The answer is to have minimum upper body strength requirements for NCAA runners. Nothing crazy, something like 15 chin ups and 40 push ups for males. And probably half that for females. Runners who starve themselves have little to no upper body mass or strength. By requiring this strength requirement, it would force athletes into a postive protein balance. Which means they aren't starving themselves, or at least minimize it greatly.

gdeegz wrote:

not an apologist wrote:

Both sides have blame as they always do

No, wrong. This is victim blaming BS. The abused is not at fault for their own abuse. What the hell is wrong with you?

I live in a world with you for starters...

You're a moran if you think she was an innocent little lamb who didn't know they were going to push her. And a double moran for thinking I'm on Nike's side here.

Man you're dumb.

Don't most female runners at the upper D1/Pro level not get periods due to high mileage, genetically low body fat and other genetic factors(more masculine figures, more natural testosterone, etc)?

Wrong again. The headline is that coaches emotionally abused a young women, a woman placed in a very isolating environment far from her support network. When she confided in people she thought she could trust that she was struggling, they turned a blind eye. This sort of abuse probably happens in Kenya too, but we just don't hear about it. The fact that Kenyans train hard and are skinny does not take away from Cain's experiences. Stop trying to ameliorate NOPs misdeeds with your false equivalences.

Chin ups and push ups are the answer wrote:

The answer is to have minimum upper body strength requirements for NCAA runners. Nothing crazy, something like 15 chin ups and 40 push ups for males. And probably half that for females. Runners who starve themselves have little to no upper body mass or strength. By requiring this strength requirement, it would force athletes into a postive protein balance. Which means they aren't starving themselves, or at least minimize it greatly.

Reminds me on Koko when she applied at a German university to study sports and she failed the entry exam - as a professional sports athlete! She failed the shot put and "ground gymnastics". But we can't just blame nutrition for everything - she might not have any fast-twitch muscles in her arms genetically.

While I do feel incredible sympathy for Mary, she clearly wasn't helping herself in this situation and should take some of the blame upon herself.

In this article, she praises the Oregon Project and how they are "a great group of people", which she went out of the way to say and did not have to say at all. If she really wanted help, she should have made herself a little more transparent instead of outright lying to the media.

That being say, I do understand why she felt pressured to do what she did, and I probably would've done the same thing. I had respect for Alberto up until this point, but after watching that video I can't be more glad that he's banned.

https://spikes.iaaf.org/post/mary-cain-i-just-have-so-much-fun?utm_source=iaaf.org&utm_medium=gridclick

not an apologist wrote:

gdeegz wrote:

No, wrong. This is victim blaming BS. The abused is not at fault for their own abuse. What the hell is wrong with you?

I live in a world with you for starters...

You're a moran if you think she was an innocent little lamb who didn't know they were going to push her. And a double moran for thinking I'm on Nike's side here.

Man you're dumb.

Didn't know they were going to push her? I think it's fair to assume as an athlete that if you're going to the top group they would have a nutritionist and sports psychologist? I'm pretty sure that every single other group does (not saying they aren't forcing females to do unhealthy things nevertheless but still). Pretty sure any normal human hearing someone is CUTTING THEMSELVES would say hey maybe let's get you some help for that.

Seems like a reminder that we as humans aren't very smart. I had been hoping she had found a way other than running to live a fruitful life.

This video makes me worry that she is desperate . Doesn't look like an athlete anymore , like that ship has sailed. I hope I'm wrong of course. That exaggerated forefoot running isn't going to work. Guaranteed to keep breaking her lower extremities down. Horrible use of posterior chain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2yG_xH91lw

Call that mean , I guess. If it were my kid I would be worried about priorities. Like some motocross kid that's never going to make it, but keeps getting busted up and dumber for the real world because of those dreams , or a kid that's too frail for football, but is out there getting his brains bashed in at some JC.

I can see why some want to forgive Nike and tell her to take personal responsibility. Though , I hate what they have been doing.

How did this become about Kenya now? And why do you think young Kenyan athletes are abused?

zxcvzxcv wrote:

It's disgusting that Salazar would treat a growing girl like this. She was already on track for a fantastic career as the runner she was and five broken bones and no period for three years tells you all you need to know about how his treatment of her stalled her career and life. Very sad. Think about it: she ran 1:59.5/4:04/15:45 (jogging) at 17. Her speed was always a big part of that. She came into it with 55 speed and Salazar wouldn't accept who she was, a great racer who ran workouts at an easier pace. You can also look at that workout video, best workout of your life, with Hasay and Salazar and Cain, where she was asked, after winning a huge race, US champs, I think, to then do the rest of Hasay's 4M tempo (which she'd never done) and a cutdown.

"Best Race/Workout Combo of Your Life" was after she set an American junior record in the mile at Boston. It was an impressive workout and one of my favorite videos to watch. Very early on in the Salazar/Mary Cain coaching collaboration.

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Chin ups and push ups are the answer wrote:

The answer is to have minimum upper body strength requirements for NCAA runners. Nothing crazy, something like 15 chin ups and 40 push ups for males. And probably half that for females. Runners who starve themselves have little to no upper body mass or strength. By requiring this strength requirement, it would force athletes into a postive protein balance. Which means they aren't starving themselves, or at least minimize it greatly.

Reminds me on Koko when she applied at a German university to study sports and she failed the entry exam - as a professional sports athlete! She failed the shot put and "ground gymnastics". But we can't just blame nutrition for everything - she might not have any fast-twitch muscles in her arms genetically.

Or probably due to having spaghetti arms.

And then she hit puberty

Magness: Coward

Julian: Coward

Editor's note: We have no idea why the poster is criticizing Magness for anything that has to do with Cain as Magness left the NOP in 2012 and Cain joined in 2013.

Youre a Moran wrote:

not an apologist wrote:

I live in a world with you for starters...

You're a moran if you think she was an innocent little lamb who didn't know they were going to push her. And a double moran for thinking I'm on Nike's side here.

Man you're dumb.

Didn't know they were going to push her? I think it's fair to assume as an athlete that if you're going to the top group they would have a nutritionist and sports psychologist? I'm pretty sure that every single other group does (not saying they aren't forcing females to do unhealthy things nevertheless but still). Pretty sure any normal human hearing someone is CUTTING THEMSELVES would say hey maybe let's get you some help for that.

Other than trying to get the last word in what are you actually trying to say? You're right I am a moran as I can't see how what you're saying is disagreeing with anything I've said. Disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing? Lol. Classy.

Question?? wrote:

Don't most female runners at the upper D1/Pro level not get periods due to high mileage, genetically low body fat and other genetic factors(more masculine figures, more natural testosterone, etc)?

My daughter runs D1, a senior now. If you lost too much weight, you didn't run that season, you were pulled (I didn't write shamed, I wrote pulled). No one on her team has not had a period for years, that's absolutely dangerous to the female body and the result is almost always stress fractures due to weaken bones. What Miss Cain said about her bones is surely true. The human body and the physiology that goes with it doesn't care if you're Mary Cain or Betty Smith, you'll have issues. Too much weight loss by itself can result in that (see below). Alberto knew better, he had to have.

HOOWIE wrote:

I've been criticizing coaches like this for years. There are plenty in the NCAA who are no different than Salazar. Ya'll better recognize this just isn't a NOP thing.

This.

This whole thing is so dumb. This is just such PC culture bullshit. He told a professional athlete to lose weight...SO WHAT!!!! That is done on every professional team in every sport, why Is track different. I give up. I want to follow this sport but it’s so petty. This is just another form of #metoo

jesseriley wrote:

These allegations mirror what Tyler Hamilton said about cycling with Lance. Same doctors telling you that you’re fat (until, in his case, your armholes had skintight fabric flapping).

He gives all the stats (massive training to lose 10 pounds, plus a minor increase in output)). Difference is he mentions fatal or near-fatal consequences in a couple of cases.

this also mirrors stories of female gymnasts. will any elite woman distance runners comment?

not an apologist wrote:

gdeegz wrote:

No, wrong. This is victim blaming BS. The abused is not at fault for their own abuse. What the hell is wrong with you?

I live in a world with you for starters...

You're a moran if you think she was an innocent little lamb who didn't know they were going to push her. And a double moran for thinking I'm on Nike's side here.

Man you're dumb.

On a video of a woman discussing that she had thoughts of suicide and cut herself because of the emotional abuse of her coaches, you posted that "both sides" are to blame.

No. Al Sal and the NOP are to blame. Cain went to the NOP expecting to get pushed, not abused and neglected.

Step away from the computer and stop posting in this thread. People's lives are at stake here.