António Cabral wrote:
You are right. It because the HR changes easily based on several number of variables precisely that is the best way tp control one zone of effort ! Seems strange to you ? But don´t.
For example if your lactate threshold is 87% of your maximum heart pulse you can be sure that if you are running on 87% of your HR maximum you are in your lactate threshold pace
But, HR can change based on variables, but that doesn't mean you are in any worse shape that day. I've had my HR show higher than usual during threshold intervals, but felt fine and ignored it. When I tested my lactate it was between 3 and 3.5 (which was the plan). If I had followed my HR I would have run too slow, and because of some silly variable that didn't really affect my shape that day.
António Cabral wrote:
For instance, lets imagine that your HR maximum is 180. there your 85% HRmaximum is 180*0.85=153.
There you might be for sure that when you run a continuous run at your 85% of your maximum HR there you can continue at that pace and get instantaneous pace control at your threshold, It´s just look for the HR monitor. Of course 85% of your effort is one stimulus that create lactate concentration, but if you take the lactate on one cold day by instance and fix one run pace for your LT, for example 3:10 per kilometer pace, and then you go to run on a heat day you try that 3:10 but you exceed your LT, because the heat (among many variables) moves up your lactate concentration. Right ?
However it´s heat and then your LT threshold pace for that day might be slower pace, but it´s guarantee that if you run on that day at your 85% maximum HR you are run on your lactate threshold precisely.
The other day you got cold fresh weather temperature but imagine that you you are tired from the yesterday workout, ne hard interval training sessions. You take the lactate on that day, because you are tired moves up quickly ans exceeds your threshold lactate concentration despite you run at slower pace than the lactate threshold value you did take previously. However on the day you are tired you are running at slower pace than usual you do your LT runs. But if you follow the pace control on the the 85% HR zone you got to be for sure that you are running at your LT pace.
If your threshold pace is 3.10, if thats a normal day you'll try running at that pace, and neither Lactate or HR can tell you that is too fast or too slow before halfway unto your intervals. You dont get to LT HR in the first interval. So lets say its a really hot day and because of the heat 3.10 is harder than usual. Then I'll simply adjust my pace, either by feel or by testing my lactate halfway. In my experience I won't get to LT HR before at least halfway, so how does that help me any more than lactate testing?
"But if you follow the pace control on the the 85% HR zone you got to be for sure that you are running at your LT pace"
You won't run at 85% in the first few intervals, they will always feel sort of fresh anyways. Anyway, when you train with lactate for a while, you develop the ability to know what lactate you currently have, there is no way I will get 5 mmol if the goal is 3. If I did I would feel it in my breath and legs, easily.
António Cabral wrote:
See, by HR monitor you can take HR percent always ans it´s for free after you got one HRM, and at any moment of the run you can take pulse control instantaneouslyH however you use use the lactate meter machine, you can just take the lactate concentration from minutes period, it´s not as useful and applicable as the HRM, and got that problem that you only can take after some seconds (40 seconds you say ?) and also it´s expensive. each take you need to pay.
No, you should take it within 40-60 seconds as the lactate starts dropping after that, or if a really hard workout after 60 seconds. One thing that HR cannot do is when you have an all out workout, you would want to know how much lactate you are able to produce. If you get 14mmol, you'll know theres more work thats needed to be done. Lactate is energy and so getting 17mmol on that day would be better, HR could never tell you this, right?
Other than that, yes I agree, you don't necessarly need a lactate meter, its expensive and HR work just fine, but if you have one I think its a useful way to really measure how hard you are training and how your lactate production is etc.
António Cabral wrote:
I also did some people say somewhere what you say, that lactate meter is better and that HRM fails. But it´s the opposite. You van´t trust in everything that is commercial or intentional or propaganda/advertising which main the target to to sell lactate meters. there they create wrong conclusions in ten mind of the runners.
I don't trust lactate because of propaganda/advertising. I've never seen a lactate commercial my entire life. The reason is because good runners use them as a tool to improve. For example: Marius Bakked (13.06) and Henrik Ingebrigtsen (5th in the 1500m final in London) + more
You see my problem? First you have great runners that use the lactate meter a lot to improve, and feels that lactate is very important in your training, then a guy like you says its not important and that HR is better. Its confusing. But really, its not what I'm most curious about. I'm more curious about correct 800m training.
Canova says: 800m aerobic support is between 8-12mmol. But if you dont test your lactate, how do you know if you are in the right intensity? What is 8-12 in mmol?
António Cabral wrote:
Yes. lactate threshold in some type of 800m runners is useless. Because if your training direction is to hold on maximum lactate production and carry on maximum lactate accumulation/concentration, to able that high lactate if you train in the direction of lactate clearance, which is the goal of the lactate threshold training, that is to move down the lactate concentration you ar running at the oposite direction that is to train for better lactate acumulation. The LT training doesn´t enable you to create "tons" of lactate, because clean the lactate very quickly. But of course, the volume training of pure steady state aerobic training shall be done for every type of 800m runners.
Whats the difference between threshold intervals and pure steady state aerobic training? I would love if you were able to talk more about this last part, didn't quite understand everything.
a. Pulsen kan helt klart si noe om dagsformen, særlig hvilepuls. Men terskel er laktat på ca. 3,0 uansett om dagsformpulsen viser 150 eller 180. Det hjelper lite å holde bom fast på 170 i puls hvis dette betyr 5,0 i laktat fordi man på denne gitte dagen har terskelpuls på 150. Eller motsatt, ligge på 2,0 i laktat og 170 i puls når dagsformen tilsier at man kunne ha hatt 180 i puls og 3,0 i laktat.