>>Sorry, can you explain your point?
There is insulin induced diabeties.Redgrave got diabeties in mid life.
Had he been track this possible tie in would have been front page but 'cos he is from a goody two shoes sport the Q never got raised.
Also rowing has never had an at home testing programme.
Track is the moral whipping boy for world sport.
Is Redgrave Type 1 or Type 2?
The basic nature of the sport is the same, 400 meter tracks where men & women run fast. When rocket backpacks are used then yes the basic nature of the sport has been changed. Drugs are not changing the sport of running anymore then mondo.
Filthy as a dirt road wrote:
Many don't - but politics dictates that certain people get away with it. Sure MJ was fouled up a bit by the BALCO mess, but no doubt the rest of the US sprinters in the 100 are juiced to the eyeballs, and most of the rest in the women's 200 and 400. Felix at least LOOKS clean. There is little doubt that Trevor Graham's guys in the 100 and 200 are filthy. But, American sprinters have politics and American TV and shoe money behind them. The E. Africans are just as dirty. What started as being "nice", letting them get away with drug use to "help them out" has turned into a Frankenstein monster. Look at Lagat, guilty as the day is long, but let off with a silly excuse - and the IAAF calling it a "technicality" and threatening his manager. It's all bs. Take away the drugs, and some of the top Kenyans and Ethiopians might not be the best guys on their teams, they might just be the top responders to drugs. Take away the drugs, and a 12:37 guy might just turn out to be a 12:58 runner, or even a 13:08 runner.
Whoa. Is this how most people feel? I am more than a bit shocked at the depth and nakedness of the cynicism in this post, and really am a bit saddened by it. If this is how people really feel, the perception about the nature of doping is just off the scale. East African distance running dominance = systematic drug abuse? Eyeball evaluation of runner body types = determination of doping or not? Hmm.
>>Is Redgrave Type 1 or Type 2?
Don't know,does anyone?
So are you saying Redgrave was injecting insulin during his competitive career and it induced him into becoming a diabetic?
I went to his website but couldn't find out if he is a Type 1 or Type 2.
>>Message:
So are you saying Redgrave was injecting insulin during his competitive career and it induced him into becoming a diabetic?
I went to his website but couldn't find out if he is a Type 1 or Type 2
Perhaps,it could well be.It makes sense on one level.The evidence is the same as in many of the names that appear on these pages(not the Balco mob for that that has appeared from the investigations).
The point being that no one has raised the issues except in knowledgable gyms.
Even if that was the case it wouldn't give Redgrave a competitive advantage like EPO or growth hormones etc. I've injected insulin into my body for the last 16 years. I haven't any advantage out of that. Check my PR's on here. I'm about the slowest runner on this board.
Non-diabetics inject insulin so they can bulk up. Weightlifters and bodybuilders have been known to do it. I'd doubt your story about Redgrave is true. It doesn't make sense.
I can see why you should have doubts.The point being that it is a very big Q and one that has not been raised.Track is the whipping boy in these matters.
If you tie most drug use into recovery from intense work rather than bulking then the story may take on a different light.
Hold tPB, insulin is a storage hormone, I am sure it could help in recovery.
Thin, Jzs,
I see your points. I guess I'm finding it hard to get my head around the effects of a non-diabetic injecting insulin. I can only work on the level that I know.
I can see the recovery side, but I would think that it would be of little benefit compared to the bulking issue.
Maybe T Monty will eventually tell us what the affects were?
As "recreational runners" we can go to our sports medicine professionals and take oral steriods or injectible steroids to reduce inflammation when icing when non-steriodal anti-inflammatories just aren't working to take care of IT-band problems, piriformis syndrome, plantar fascitis, etc.
Do elite athletes get exemptions to take care of problems like these after they occur?
If so, it seems odd that one needs to wait until a problem occurs to take a drug that might have been avoided if similar drug therapies were used to prevent the problem...
>>As "recreational runners" we can go to our sports medicine professionals and take oral steriods or injectible steroids
Which sort of steroids,I would assume not anabolic.
"Which sort of steroids,I would assume not anabolic."
Sure, there's no reason to go to a physician though, you can buy the stuff legally, they advertise sources for anabolics on this web-site, check out the thread on testosterone and see what's advertised! Here's another example:
http://www.jbn.com/cgi-bin/jbn/IDS00002.html
.
Recreational athletes can use this stuff with impunity!
Slate magazine wrote a helpful article explaining how insulin can be performance-enhancing
How Would Insulin Help Marion Jones?
Does it make athletes faster?
By Brendan I. Koerner
Posted Friday, July 23, 2004, at 2:14 PM PT
Running on empty?
C.J. Hunter, the ex-husband of champion sprinter Marion Jones, is alleging that Jones used performance-enhancing drugs during the 2000 Olympics in Sydney, Australia. Hunter, a retired shot putter, says his then-wife relied on a cornucopia of banned substances, including human growth hormone, the steroid THG, the endurance booster EPO, and insulin. How is an athlete's performance aided by insulin, a substance more commonly used by diabetics to control their blood sugar?
Chiefly by boosting the body's supply of glycogen, a crucial muscle fuel. As diabetics know well, insulin, which is produced naturally by the pancreas, is a hormone that regulates blood-sugar levels by enabling the breakdown of glucose. The hormone stimulates this process (called glycolysis) by transporting glucose into muscle cells, where it is metabolized. If the muscles are flooded with too much glucose at once, however, they store the excess in the form of glycogen, a complex carbohydrate that provides energy to muscles during physical exertion. The more glycogen an athlete possesses, the longer she can keep her muscles pumping.
Insulin is thus popular among endurance athletes, such as cyclists. But in combination with anabolic steroids, glycogen is also effective at maintaining muscular bulk. The substance plays a key role in inhibiting protein breakdown; that's why, when bodies are starved of insulin (and, as a result, glycogen), they tend to quickly metabolize muscle proteins in order to gain energy. So bodybuilders, powerlifters, and other athletes concerned with sheer mass like to use insulin as a way to preserve the muscular gains they've made with steroids.
The hazards of insulin abuse are well-documented. An overdose can cause the body to break down far too much glucose, leading to dangerously low blood-sugar levels. The consequences of this condition, known as hypoglycemia, can range from nausea to death. Last December, for example, a former Miss Universe contestant from Scotland, Louise Nuttall-Halliwell, died after spending nearly two years in an insulin-induced coma.
Theoretically, at least, it shouldn't be difficult to test for the presence of illicitly consumed insulin, as the injectable variety—which is either genetically engineered or taken from animals—differs chemically from the stuff manufactured by the human pancreas. Unfortunately, insulin also passes through the body rather quickly—usually within an hour—and so post-competition tests have almost zero chance of catching a miscreant red-handed.
Bonus Explainer: Insulin has been on the International Olympic Committee's list of banned substances since 1998. But the IOC makes exceptions for athletes who can prove that they genuinely suffer from diabetes—good news for American swimmer Gary Hall Jr. A four-time Olympic gold medalist who was diagnosed with Type-1 diabetes in 1999, Hall recently qualified for his third Olympic team.
>>Recreational athletes can use this stuff with impunity!
Phil;
This contradiction could bring the end of drug testing.The rules say that ALL who compete must abide by the rules and are ALL subject to out of comp tests.They are in breach of human rights laws by targeting only a small part of the athletics population.
The issue for the Doc is interesting,he is not meant to give anabolics to athletes by medical rules.Thus again define athlete ;international or recreational or some where in between.
ps.Have a look on the eddy h thread, some fresh stuff on the cleared Uk female and isuse of the mass specs by not running calibrations(again)amd co-eluted peaks.
Lets ask the best expert. History, East Africans have a prven running record. Are you saying they have been doped up since day one.
Someone Special wrote:
I guess I find it hard to imagine that serious/gifted/pro/elite athletes would take anything that would jeapordize their health and actually shorten their lives, even for loads and loads of money. Almost by definition, athletes are the most health-conscious people in society. We all want to stay trim and live a long, healthy life. I cannot imagine that any amount of money would cause this number of athletes to NOT care about shortening their lives. I also don't understand how having a doctor would reduce any negative side effects. However, if some of these drugs are safe when prescribed by a doctor, then those instructions could easily be made available to all athletes by some company that wants to make a lot of money (similar to vitamins and supplements available from GNC and similar companies).
Care to rethink your first line???