Manzano and the flags. An opinion from a Mexican American

This may have come up on another thread but I haven't seen it yet so here it is:

-From the Olympic Charter

Chapter 1, Article 6: The Olympic Games are competitions between athletes in individual or team events and not between countries.

I've seen a few posts commenting on competition solely between nations, and based on the above, perhaps it would be best if flags weren't carried around the track at all. Then again, who's to say that these athletes shouldn't be allowed to show support for their respective home nations? I certainly don't find anything wrong with a little national pride.

I don't agree with what Leo did. But he obviously feels like he is representing two nations and still feels pride or national support for Mexico, and if that is how he feels, then so be it. I'm sure he is a great guy and an incredibly hard worker, and I'm happy that his work has paid off. I would be very curious to see how we would react a situation like Mo Farah's: born in Somalia, and living, training, and being coached in the US, but representing the UK. I believe one poster said he might as well carry THREE flags!

Let's try to remember that this is the Olympics. This is a time for great and fair competition, sportsmanship, unity, peace, the love of sport, and a fun time (including lots of hot action in the Olympic village).

He did not compete for Mexico, he competed for the USA and that is the only flag that he should carry. If he chose to compete for mexico then he could have carried the mexican flag with honor, but he has chosen to try to be a hero in mexico and still be considered a USA runner ....

I believe that any runner who takes up a flag which is not of the country that sponsors them at the Olympics should be dismissed from any future Olympic representation by the country sponsor. They can continue to compete for the country whose flag they chose.

DaveW wrote:

....

I believe that any runner who takes up a flag which is not of the country that sponsors them at the Olympics should be dismissed from any future Olympic representation by the country sponsor...

That's because you are a moron.

orbitboy wrote:

sub3over40 wrote:

The next time Lagat wins a race.....should he run around with the American flag and the Kenyan flag? Manzano was representing America and that it the only flag he should be waving. If he wanted to run for Mexico, he should have done it.

Lagat/Kenya ≠ Manzano/Mexico. Two different situations. This has already been explained several times on this board so far this week. Sanya Richards/Jamaica is different as well. Do your homework next time.

They are all the same. All three were born in other countries and all three are representing America as Americans. Two are representing America properly and one is not. Is the difference that two are black and one is hispanic? I hope that is not what you are getting at because that should not be a difference. When you come here, you become an American. We are all immigrants but we become Americans and our allegiance is not split among other countries. He is a great runner and should be honored for his race, but this was poor judgment.

Every runner for the USA has a past heritage, but they don't feel compelled to disparage the USA by pulling out a flag from some other country.

Any runner who pulls out a flag from a country who did not sponsor them at the Olympics should be immediately sent home with a reprimand. Two flags is about as duplicitous and dishonest as it gets.

He did it to honor all of his heritage, not to dishonor the US, and everyone understands that except for duplicitous dishonest dorkwads like you

DaveW wrote:

Every runner for the USA has a past heritage, but they don't feel compelled to disparage the USA by pulling out a flag from some other country.

Any runner who pulls out a flag from a country who did not sponsor them at the Olympics should be immediately sent home with a reprimand. Two flags is about as duplicitous and dishonest as it gets.

My family came through Ellis Island from Germany so I guess if I ever win an Olympic medal I will wave an American flag in one hand and a Nazi flag in the other. Gotta show some pride in where I came from, you know? In fact, I think I'll be sure to tell them to raise a Nazi flag beside the American flag when I'm on the podium.

Proud American from Germany wrote:

My family came through Ellis Island from Germany so I guess if I ever win an Olympic medal I will wave an American flag in one hand and a Nazi flag in the other. Gotta show some pride in where I came from, you know? In fact, I think I'll be sure to tell them to raise a Nazi flag beside the American flag when I'm on the podium.

Well I mean Nazis were a political party and haven't been in power for nearly 70 years. But if you place in the 1500 in Rio, I'll support your decision! I mean you'll be over 70 years old so why the hell not!

He will not be allowed to place in the 1500 in Rio, I hope.

Mr. Manzano needs to focus his coaching efforts on teaching his kids about the benefits of the USA and perhaps one day his kids will win a medal and not even think about flying a flag from another country....?

sub3over40 wrote:

They are all the same. All three were born in other countries and all three are representing America as Americans. Two are representing America properly and one is not. Is the difference that two are black and one is hispanic? I hope that is not what you are getting at because that should not be a difference. When you come here, you become an American. We are all immigrants but we become Americans and our allegiance is not split among other countries. He is a great runner and should be honored for his race, but this was poor judgment.[/quote]

You're still way off, so here's some help. Compare the histories in track and field of these three respective countries: Mexico, Kenya and Jamaica vs. the U.S. Added bonus: Mexico and Texas (Manzano's home state) share a border, as well as MILLIONS of residents with similar backgrounds to Manzano's. There, that wasn't so hard, was it?

This article was clearly written by someone who has never competed in our sport, and is obviously just someone who was watching the Olympics with no real understanding of how track and field works.

Leo was wearing USA, so clearly he MUST show support ONLY for the country on his jersey. I mean, surely he must owe everything in his life and career to the nation he runs for...

Leo was born in Mexico, and still returns to Mexico every fall for training. He lives in Austin, which is about as Tex-Mex as you can be. He has an identity as a Mexican-American, and he wants to show that.

Maybe some kid in Mexico got to see that, and will become a naturalized citizen and train his ass off to be like Leo. Is it really so bad that Leo ran a victory lap with two flags?

I suppose I should clarify now, I am white and from the midwest, and have NO problem with Leo's actions. I'm happy that the USA got a silver medal in the 1500m!

I like this author's point about Americans being proud of both their citizenship and heritage. I think Manzano only wanted to pay tribute to his ancestors. I think the analogy with Algeria fails, however, in that France colonized Algeria and the united States annexed a good part of Mexico as a result of a war.

I have a different point I'd like to make with regard to all this flag waving generally, and it has nothing to do with Manzano directly. I think this post race, flag waving victory lap had its origins in the 1970s, when a child came out of the stands and followed Lasse Viren around the track with a flag of Finland after one of Viren's victories. Once, it was a beautiful, unique moment. Now it's a tired cliche The athletes are handed these large flags with no pole to carry them with. For obvious reasons, they can't refuse to accept the flag. They try to hold it up high enough to keep it off the ground. They can't wave it. They usually end up with the flag draped around their shoulders, and by the time they are interviewed, they are using the flag to wipe sweat off their faces. It's unseemly. Please don't mistake my view for lack of patriotism. It's just impossible in a practical sense for the athletes to handle the flags they are handed with any decorum. I'd like to see all nations end this practice. Thank you, and enjoy the rest of the Games..

The worst is when people toss the flags to the athlete but the toss is bad and it lands on the ground. That's not really okay.

And yet the America-boosters don't give a damn about that (something the Boy Scouts taught me was never okay), but they really care a great deal about America when it comes to a brown kid showing respect for his heritage.

It's amazing that we, collectively as Americans, have the time and energy to waste giving a shit about this. The kid won a silver medal, let him do what he wants, move on with your lives.

I'm waiting for the time when medal winners are not coerced into wrapping themselves in American flags.

They were the ones born with the genetic gifts. They were the ones who did all the hard work, executed the race plan, had luck on their side on that day. They were the individuals who medaled in their races.

Not America. Whatever that is.

This nationalistic fervor is instilled by a lifetime of propaganda and is used to manipulate people into doing things that are bad for themselves and the world.

Time to outgrow this nonsense

stateless wrote:

The Olympics has been become just another manifestation of surrogate warfare. It was blatant during the Cold War and it still is. Winners of other awards for major life accomplishments - Nobel prizes, Oscars, etc etc - do not drape themselves in flags or stand to hear national anthems.

I really wish all athletes would just compete under an Olympic flag but it will never happen.

There were plenty of Israeli flags waving in the stands when Aly Raisman won gold in the floor exercises, by the way. No one seemed to have any problem with it.

Manzano did the work and ran the race and won the medal. As far as I am concerned, he can do anything he wants. If he wants to acknowledge part of his heritage, it's his prerogative.

That's the world we live in. "Imagine" is not the reality. Maybe one day.

The Raisman example is not a good one. It's not as if Raisman herself waived American and Israeli flags.

Of course Manzano can do whatever he wants. The question is the timing and appropriateness of his actions. Inasmuch as the display of your nation's flag has become an Olympic tradition, it strikes me as inappropriate for any athlete to simultaneously wave a flag from a country for which you are not competing.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.

But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all.

We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans; and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt