Minor Olympic events: the hidden treasures, the ridiculous

sbeefyk1 wrote:

The horse does everything. Literally, the horse does all the work.

Not exactly. And it's definitely not "horse does all the physical, rider does all the thinking."

Here's the best way I can think of to explain it. If you've ever run the steeplechase or hurdles, then you know the importance of meeting a jump in stride.

Meeting a jump in stride is also crucial in jumping horses. But it's more complicated, in that a) you're getting a horse to meet the jump in stride (rather than just yourself) and b) there's a wide variety of jumps. Verticals (just straight up and down) usually require the horse to jump from a shortened stride and a slower pace, while wider jumps (oxers and triple bars) require a faster pace and a different take-off spot.

And, each horse is different in just how they need to be placed at the jump.

And, placing the horse at the jump is very physically demanding. You're accomplishing it via a combination of shifting your body weight around, pulling on the reins (sometimes REALLY HARD) and squeezing with your legs (again, sometimes really hard). Riders have very strong inner thighs, biceps, and core. Ridiculously strong cores.

And, once you're in the air, you need to position your body in such a way as to enable the horse to jump its best. Which is pretty darn hard.

Here's a great example of someone riding who isn't doing much more than steering and letting the horse do all the work. Doesn't work very well, even over fairly small jumps, does it?

That's from the 2008 Beijing Olympics, in the modern pentathlon. And most of the rounds were like that - it was really sad to watch.

Those guys do train for the sport, but not enough (because they have to focus on 4 other sports as well). His fitness from his other sports is pulling him through to some extent, but still a horrible performance.

I was watching dressage with my partner (she's a horse person) and not really understanding what was going on, because I know nothing about it. Changing gaits, crossing over, the horse doing very difficult things with its legs.

Then she said something that made it all fall into place. She said, "the horse is the athlete."

The horse's work is what you admire.

They don't get to use their own horses in the modern pentathlon, so they probably has something to do with it.

smr wrote:

They don't get to use their own horses in the modern pentathlon, so they probably has something to do with it.

That's also true at other competitions - in the World Equestrian Games (World Champs, once every 4 years) the top 4 riders in Showjumping each ride the other 3 horses. And intercollegiate riding involves riding horses drawn randomly.

I didn't mean that the rider isn't doing physical work as well. But I agree with everything you're saying! And as for bringing Nascar to the Olympics, cars don't have a mind of their own. So it's a tad different, haha

darkwave wrote:

Mrs. M wrote:

.Some of those jumps are quite difficult....for the horse, that is...

Rider's working pretty damn hard, honestly.

I was just being a bit cheeky - I've only been on a horse a few times and the isometric clenching required made me better appreciate how riding horse uses your core and leg muscles.

bloody shame wrote:

[quote]Americans are notorious for lacking subtlety and finesse. Your reputation in the world is partly based on your inability to extend yourselves to gain a deeper knowledge of things that are not at a child's level of understanding. Like home runs, slam dunks, touchdowns, and ice hockey fights.

Blimey, mate. Gotcher knickers in a bunch, do ya?

The bloody Continentals need a good whipping, an you're just the man to stiff 'em one.

Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Carry on wit your stereotypical poppycock, will ya?[/quot

I thought I had already atoned for my ill-advised and premeditated attack on Americana (see above post).

Actually, Australians can be much the same. I was really venting my frustration at bogan attitudes, while, unfortunately, acting like one myself. There. I have learnt something important about myself. Anyone for table tennis?

sbeefyk1 wrote:

Equestrian is probably the worst. The horse does everything. Literally, the horse does all the work.

Wrong - if completely left up to the horse, s/he would avoid ALL the jumps, which sometimes during the event they do and the rider is penalized for it.

I am quite ignorant of the technical specifics of the equestrian events but I am skeptical of your arguments. The guy I saw was 48 and in dress clothes. If this sport is so physically difficult how can a 48 yr. old be at the top of the sport.Also so few people have the interest and opportunity to pursue the sport I doubt it is really competitive.

All the difference in the world. Runners of all people should know that the level of competition in a sport with 100's of millions of participants will be tougher than a sport with relatively very few participants.

Camazotz wrote:

It doesn't make much sense, because you were competing in an event where 95% of the population doesn't have the resources to compete.

What possible difference does that make?

The oldest Olympian in these games is a 70+ year old Japanese man who ONLY did dressage - the XC and jumping components are much more physically demanding for the riders.

Not all Olympic events are equal. It does depend of the popularity of the sport. If you prove you are the best in the world it makes a huge difference if it a sport that it commonly done versus a sport that only a few do.None should be disrespected but they are not equal in value of accomplishment.

DZ777 wrote:

Please don't label all equestrian people as "snobs". All athletes work just as hard as each other, and you need to respect that. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, such as which sport they find boring, but don't disrespect them. Everyone that is participating in the Olympics spend hours every day perfecting what they do. Don't make assumptions on something that you've never tried before.

If they are going to have horse events, how come there is no bronc riding, bull riding, team roping, steer wrestling, barrel racing and the like? I'm mostly making a joke, but rodeo athletes are both good and tough. The top end bull riders could have been gymnasts if they started early and the steer wrestlers are big, nimble, and it seems like all were linebackers at some level of football. The roping events are done at full gallup. Women in wranglers look awesome. I think I'll forward this to Jacque Rogge.

I'm completely ignorant of the equestrian events, but I have a few questions.

If you qualify for an event, do you bring your own horse to the Olympics, or is one provided? An earlier post stated that the horse was the athlete. Does this mean that more than one rider can ride the horse in a competition and that horse wins the gold medal? Or, is it only one rider for one horse, one horse for one rider?

If the rider is most important and your horse is hurt, can you switch to a new horse and still continue competing?

Is there a USA Equestrian Association that has money to ship horses to the Olympics? Don't horses freak out on this kind of travel?

Conundrum wrote:

All the difference in the world. Runners of all people should know that the level of competition in a sport with 100's of millions of participants will be tougher than a sport with relatively very few participants.

I'm afraid I still don't see your point. Such comparisons, for whatever they're worth (and little to nothing, as far as I can tell), could be made across all of the Olympic events, but to what ultimate purpose, I don't know. Sure, more people run than ride horses. But I dare say that more people around the world ride horses, at various levels of competition, than throw the hammer (or the javelin), or pole vault. Team handball? Water polo? Canoe slalom? Weight-lifting? I don't know how the various sports may stack up, in such comparisons.

There will also be imbalances on a regional basis. Is table tennis more or less "competitive" given that it is played (and enjoyed) by many millions in China and other countries in Asia, but is by and large (it seems to me, anyhow) a "rec room" sport in the West?

I'm not sure, the more I think about it, that I even accept the premise that a particular sport is "more competitive," at a high level, due to the comparative number of people world wide who participate in it. Is marathon running "more competitive" than some other sport on account of the many millions around the world who today run five and six hour marathons? Or is it the relatively few number of East Africans who perform at such a high level that make it such a challenge?

And, ultimately, I'm left where I started, I suppose. What difference does it make? Sport, when all is said and done, is a frolic and detour, a form of recreation for the vast majority who participate in it, and a form of entertainment for those who watch it. That is has much, if any, value beyond that is hardly clear to me.

Lydiard is God wrote:

Your reputation in the world is partly based on your inability to extend yourselves to gain a deeper knowledge of things that are not at a child's level of understanding. Like home runs, slam dunks, touchdowns, and ice hockey fights.

.... or easily available national stereotypes?

old nag wrote:

...she's a horse person...

Your girl is a centaur?

I believe that I have already showed sufficient contrition for denigrating the USA in what I thought was the average robust, LetsRun manner-not to be taken seriously. A thin skin is not what I think of as an 'easily available national stereotype' for America. On an equine note, I hope NZer Mark Todd can get another Olympic medal. He has been a fine competitor for many years.

Father Irony wrote:

Lydiard is God wrote:

Your reputation in the world is partly based on your inability to extend yourselves to gain a deeper knowledge of things that are not at a child's level of understanding. Like home runs, slam dunks, touchdowns, and ice hockey fights.

.... or easily available national stereotypes?

For me the table tennis was the minor sport I've enjoyed the most so far. Also enjoyed, kayaking, rowing, water polo, archery, team handball, beach volleyball (although I think this counts as a major sport), field hockey, and pretty much anything I've caught.

Things I did not enjoy include diving and gymnastics. I still watched and got into them but I just don't find them that fun to watch.