Asbel Kiprop 48 for the 400 on the dirt track

Not really underachieving. Just clean.

I think Asbel Kiprop is the best clean 1500 runner ever.

He might even go 3.27.xx.

He has more talent than EL G, Lagat, Morceli and Ngeny.

The difference is drugs, and EPO in particular.

Ordinary Fan wrote:

Your regard for 1:44 as being a good warmup for a 400 PB 90 minutes later is acknowledged. However, it seems fair to think that it might have detracted from Coe's 400, in view of the fact that back then, 1:44.0 seems to have been in the all-time top ten 800 performances.

True, you wouldn't think it was ideal preparation for an 400 relay. Ryun ran an 800 WR negative splitting off a 1.51 800 90 mins before.

Deano -

I am just telling you the of my experience. I'd say three times I ran 1.50 point 800m, then a sub 49 sec 400m (usually running third) relay leg 15 to 30 mins later. I remember being staggered (mentally) by it at the time. I only ever broke 49 seconds once in a straight 400m.

You can draft from the distance Coe was behind. Using the wrong had just shows he was not too bright.

Smartest guy wrote:

Not really underachieving. Just clean.

I think Asbel Kiprop is the best clean 1500 runner ever.

He might even go 3.27.xx.

He has more talent than EL G, Lagat, Morceli and Ngeny.

The difference is drugs, and EPO in particular.

I agree that EL G, Lagat & Ngeny (not sure about Morceli, but likely) were probably using EPO, but I don't believe Kiprop has more talent than these guys or several others. Even though EL G was probably dirty, I would think that many of his peers were also, yet he dominated them for many years and won the vast majority of his races. Kiprop is still pretty inconsistent. He can run a 3:29 one week and the next be outside the top 4 in a slowish time. That is not a sign of greatness.

And with recent reports and comments coming out of (and about) Kenya's woeful lack of drug testing, I'm not even confident that he is 100% clean.

not sure about that wrote:

Ordinary Fan wrote:

Your regard for 1:44 as being a good warmup for a 400 PB 90 minutes later is acknowledged. However, it seems fair to think that it might have detracted from Coe's 400, in view of the fact that back then, 1:44.0 seems to have been in the all-time top ten 800 performances.

True, you wouldn't think it was ideal preparation for an 400 relay. Ryun ran an 800 WR negative splitting off a 1.51 800 90 mins before.

Deano -

I am just telling you the of my experience. I'd say three times I ran 1.50 point 800m, then a sub 49 sec 400m (usually running third) relay leg 15 to 30 mins later. I remember being staggered (mentally) by it at the time. I only ever broke 49 seconds once in a straight 400m.

You can draft from the distance Coe was behind. Using the wrong had just shows he was not too bright.

There is a huge difference between a 1:51 heat and a solo 1:44 flat.

Maybe Coe's rate of recovery was so good that the 800 didn't take much out of him for the 400 relay, but it certainly wouldn't have aided his performance.

Your sub 49 relay is very impressive, but of course as you know, you'd have benefitted by about 0.5 - 0.7 through the running/moving start. Without seeing your race then I cannot comment on how much drafting you received and how accurate the hand timing of your leg would have been!

With Coe, his race is on video (Youtube-

and we can clearly see that he lost time and distance (which at least cancels out that 0.7 he'd have gained from a running start) at the beginning of his leg.

We'll have to disagree about drafting. He might have received a negligible amount round the 2nd curve as he closed in on the American, but it was still worth a sub 46.0 400m.

I'd be interested to know where you think the distance is when drafting no longer applies, and what benefit a 4m gap would give in drafting terms as opposed to a 2m one?

so shoes would have made him faster or slower?