The great STRETCH debate - vote here

1. c

2. a

46 yo female average 65-75 mpw depending on what distance I am training for.

getreal wrote:

Thank god we have the expert opinion of the local trainer from Curves. His advice should settle any and all debate.

Static stretching is yet another hold-over from the outdated training programs of 20 years ago that the running community continues to follow. Yet again, another example of how running as a sport is far behind modern times.

Here, I will do your homework for you:

Rod Pope an army physiotherapist in Australia, recently carried out a wide study to assess the relationship between static stretching and injury prevention. Pope monitored over 1600 recruits over the course of a year in randomised controlled trials. He found no differences in the occurrence of injury between those recruits who statically stretched and those who did not. (1, 2)

“Gleim & McHugh (1997), would also challenge the premise that stretching, or indeed increased flexibility, reduces the risk of injury” (1,3)

New research has shown that static stretching decreases eccentric strength for up to an hour after the stretch. Static stretching has been shown to decrease muscle strength by up to 9% for 60 minutes following the stretch and decrease eccentric strength by 7% followed by a specific hamstring stretch. (4)

Rosenbaum and Hennig showed that static stretching reduced peak force by 5% and the rate of force production by 8%. This study was about Achilles tendon reflex activity. (5)

Gerard van der poel stated that static stretching caused a specific decrease in the specific coordination of explosive movements. (4)

Three 15-second stretches of the hamstrings, quadriceps, and calf muscles reduced the peak vertical velocity of a vertical jump in the majority of subjects (Knudson et al. 2000). (6,7)

Moscov (1993) found that there is no relationship between static flexibility and dynamic flexibility. This suggests that an increased static range of motion may not be translated into functional, sport-specific flexibility, which is largely dynamic in most sporting situations (1)

Static based stretching programs seem best suited following an activity. (8)

Mike Boyle uses a dynamic warm-up with his athletes. He goes through about 26000 workouts over the course of a summer. In 2002 he did not have one major muscle pull that required medical attention. (10)

Flexibility is speed specific. There are two kinds of stretch receptors, one measures magnitude and speed and the other measures magnitude only. Static flexibility improves static flexibility and dynamic flexibility improves dynamic flexibility which is why it doesn’t make sense to static stretch prior to dynamic activity. There is considerable but not complete transfer of static stretching to dynamic stretching(11)

One author compared a team that dynamically stretched to a team that static stretched. The team that dynamically stretched had fewer injuries. (8)

There are few sports where achieving static flexibility is advantageous to success in the sport. Therefore according to the principle of specificity it would seem to be more advantageous to perform a dynamic warm-up which more resembles the activity of the sport.(12)

Dynamic Flexibility increases core temperature, muscle temperature, elongates the muscles, stimulates the nervous system, and helps decrease the chance of injury. (13)

Another author showed that dynamic stretching does increase flexibility. (11)

1.

, So what about dynamic flexibility.

2. Rod Pope, 'Skip the warm-up,' New Scientist, 164(2214), p. 23

3. Gleim & McHugh (1997), 'Flexibility and its effects on sports injury and performance,' Sports Medicine, 24(5), pp. 289-299.

4. Mick Critchell, Warm ups for soccer a Dynamic approach, page 5.

5. Rosenbaum, D. and E. M. Hennig. 1995. The influence of stretching and warm-up exercises on Achilles tendon reflex activity. Journal of Sport Sciences vol. 13, no. 6, pp. 481–90.

6. Knudson, D., K. Bennet, R. Corn, D. Leick, and C. Smith. 2000. Acute Effects of Stretching Are Not Evident in the Kinematics of the Vertical Jump. Research Quarterly for Exercise and Sport vol. 71, no. 1 (Supplement), p. A-30.

7. Tomas Kurz,

,

8. Mann, Douglas, Jones Margaret 1999: Guidelines to the implementation of a dynamic stretching routine, Strength and Conditioning Journal:Vol 21 No 6 pp53-55

9.

10. Boyle, Mike, Functional Training for Sports, pg 29

11. Kurz, Tomas, Science of Sports Training, page 236

12. Hendrick, Allen, Dynamic Flexibility training, Strength and conditioning Journal, Vol 22 no 5, Pgs 33-38.

13. Frederick Gregory 2001 Baseball Part 1 Dynamic Flexibility, Strength and conditioning Journal Vol 23 No 1 Pages 21-30.

dr stretch wrote:

Results will be tallied as they come in. Vote now!

So what was the result of the tally? Did we learn anything?

We learned that runningart2004 will continue to babble on long past the point of anyone caring what he has to say.

1. A (not at all)

2. B (1)

Active yes, Static No.

end of discussion--its not even close

1. How much do you stretch?

a) not at all

2. How many running injuries have you had in the last two years that have stopped you running? (count separate occurrences of the same injury as multiple injuries)

a) O

'One author compared a team that dynamically stretched to a team that static stretched. The team that dynamically stretched had fewer injuries. (8) '

1)Did they compare it with a team that did both? Especially one which did dynamic before then static afterwards?

2(a) Why does my cat stretch?

2(b) Is this cheetah doing it all wrong?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0CmfUKhqc4

training thru wrote:

We learned that runningart2004 will continue to babble on long past the point of anyone caring what he has to say.

Sure we learned that but we knew that already :-)

We also learn that the OP can't be bothered to tally up the results of his own questionnaire. Lame

I'm still worried about my cat

Runningart hasn't got back to me and I'm not sure wether I should advise him to cut out the stretches and do some dynamics

I've never seen a cat hold a stretch for 30-60 seconds. The goal of static stretching it stretching to the point of overcoming the stretch-reflex.

Now, if you already have range of motion issues, tight hips, etc then stretching POST-run has some value.

I'd rather not call it "stretching" but rather "corrective exercise"

Alan

Yor are trying to split (cat) hairs in your argument there!

A stretch is a stretch

How often do you stretch?

answer- Before and after runs.

How many times have you been injured?

answer- Never.

Runningart2004 wrote:

I've never seen a cat hold a stretch for 30-60 seconds. The goal of static stretching it stretching to the point of overcoming the stretch-reflex.

Now, if you already have range of motion issues, tight hips, etc then stretching POST-run has some value.

I'd rather not call it "stretching" but rather "corrective exercise"

Alan

Why would you hold a stretch for 30-60 seconds. I was always told 10 to 15 seconds. To me that is just about right.

I think some stretches are more important then others, in particular hip-flexor and back stretches. There's not a lot of point stretching individual leg and arm muscles if you have a tight back and hips, to my mind.

To get back to your cat. I'm assuming he/she does one all over body type stretch, basically just lengthening the spine, and doesn't sit in the hurdle position working individually on the hamstrings or somehow pull his lower hind-leg up to his ass to stretch his quads.

I think that most people have no clue about stretching...or their own bodies. What people REALLY need to do, is figure out if they have muscle weaknesses...that cause injuries. And frankly.....stretching should be done to work on ROM.....and not everyone needs to be superflexible. Someone who is a high jumper, or hurdler or vaulter...absolutely....but a distance runner? Not so much. What people need to work on is having a well balanced body.....strong everywhere...to avoid injuries.

It is SO annoying to coach where the head coach and athletes will NOT give up those boneheaded stretches that they do in a group. As often as I try to get them to do dynamic moves and get away from those stupid group stretches...they just won't give them up.

Find out what YOU need to do to stay healthy....and then do it. And for most of you that will involve some time in the weight room.

As a coach I've tried to get rid of the stretches at the beginning of the season, and have found that the athletes are quite attached to them (not sure if it's to get out of running, the leadership role they enjoy or because they feel looser). We ended up keeping those stretches, but still do drills and strides. I also coach track, so am working with sprints, field events, and distance though.

'To get back to your cat. I'm assuming he/she does one all over body type stretch, basically just lengthening the spine, and doesn't sit in the hurdle position working individually on the hamstrings or somehow pull his lower hind-leg up to his ass to stretch his quads.'

He can't get his leg over the hurdle - perhaps he might make it if we used those American style hurdles - set at the wrong height!

He does 2 stretches. He's covering his spine and all the leg muscles in these 2 stretches

Seb coe did a lot of stetching and it didn't seem to slow him down!

Why do people always jump from one extreme to the other its either all stretching or no sretching, high carbs or no carbs.

I used to to do a warm up before a run then stetching. Now I warm up with dynamics, then do some stretching afterwards but to be honest it doesn't make that seem to make that big a difference

'To get back to your cat. I'm assuming he/she does one all over body type stretch, basically just lengthening the spine, and doesn't sit in the hurdle position working individually on the hamstrings or somehow pull his lower hind-leg up to his ass to stretch his quads.'

He can't get his leg over the hurdle - perhaps he might make it if we used those American style hurdles - set at the wrong height!

He does 2 stretches. He's covering his spine and all the leg muscles in these 2 stretches

Seb coe did a lot of stetching and it didn't seem to slow him down!

Why do people always jump from one extreme to the other its either all stretching or no stretching, high carbs or no carbs.