Hudson and Ritz Part Ways

NY Coach outlines a reasonable approach for Ritz! I will add that Dathan probably runs the 2-mile and 5,000m fast when his 10k to 10-mile "strength-endurance" is high; not when he focuses training specifically for shorter races for an extended period.

If I had the opportunity to coach Dathan, I'd limit his marathons to one per year and give him just 16 weeks of marathon build-up training. Give him a week off after a marathon race and three gentle training weeks to follow (like 35 miles, 49 miles, and 64 miles). Then, I'd give him 6 weeks of generalized buildup; followed by a steady-steady-steady approach that suits his individual needs (which probably resembles 10k-10 mile training).

Finally, I'll suggest that tailoring Dathan's training around a given race-distance should be secondary to tailoring training how he responds best.

Nearly everyone I know respects Dathan and wants him to succeed. He should live wherever he his happiest; and that is the best place for him to train. When Craig Virgin moved back to Southern IL, after living in Eugene, OR, a lot of people thought he was crazy for leaving such a great running place. But, Craig was happier back home in IL, and he trained better and ran stronger (his words, not mine).

Regards,

Tinman

Ritz speaks:

http://www.universalsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=105671&SPID=13048&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=23000&ATCLID=3740370

At 26 and with a lot of experience does he really need a "live-in" coach? I would think he should have a good knowledge of what he needs to do. Find someone he respects to use as a sounding board, go live where he is happiest. Get a nice group of runners around him and do it his way with some good input from people he respects.

mopak wrote:

At 26 and with a lot of experience does he really need a "live-in" coach? I would think he should have a good knowledge of what he needs to do. Find someone he respects to use as a sounding board, go live where he is happiest. Get a nice group of runners around him and do it his way with some good input from people he respects.

Exactly. He's not a child any more. If after 8 years of running at a national class level he doesn't know how best to get himself fit, then I don't think a coach can help him.

Sure he isn't, and he'd never run himself into injury without a constant watchful eye to make sure he doesn't.

Well, there it is. He WILL be looking at some faster racing this summer, as many have suggested he do.

I would like to see him meet that potential in the 10k that I think he has.

I don't think track racing would help Ritz as much as focusing on improving on his half-marathon PR.

It was $7500.

http://www.nyrr.org/races/pro/kidney/07story.asp

Tinman could you expand on the strength endurance comment and he would run the 2 mile/5k faster on 10k/10 mile training

thanks

Well, as many have suggested and I agree with, his 'wheelhouse' may be 10k-HM. In fact it very well could be 12k-15k, meaning xc as well. But my point was that I think he should have gone much faster in 10k than 27:35. Sorry, but there's no way Alan Webb should have a faster pr at 5k or 10k than Dathan. I don't think he's met his potential there. Having said that, I think his best events may be xc and road racing the 'middle' type distances (i.e. 10k-HM).

mighty porn stache wrote:

But my point was that I think he should have gone much faster in 10k than 27:35. Sorry, but there's no way Alan Webb should have a faster pr at 5k or 10k than Dathan. I don't think he's met his potential there. Having said that, I think his best events may be xc and road racing the 'middle' type distances (i.e. 10k-HM).

The point is that no matter how close to his perceived potential he gets in the 5k or 10k, it won't make him competitive with the best in the world. Having faster PRs than Webb is significant of very little in and of itself. As we've seen with Baldini, Meb, etc. you don't have to be incredibly fast to win or place at big marathons. You do have to be incredibly fast (over 1500m) to win or place in the 5k or 10k at big meets. Ritz has always seemed to be more about being competitive and winning (Footlocker, World XC, NCAA XC) than about putting a certain time into the record books.

Hartmann left a couple months ago. I predict that Carney will be next.

So, do you not think it's important to be running a pretty good 10k in order to be able to compete at 12k or HM? Of course you do. And Dathan has that 'speed', but IMO hasn't met it yet. I'm not saying he should be shooting for his career to be a track 10k guy. No, he won't win a damn thing there probably. But by spending this summer on running a couple good 10ks, come fall, he should be set up well to hit some fast HMs or similar distances on the roads as well as run well in xc. Wasn't it the BUPA great north run 20k or something where he ran so fast a couple years ago? That's probably his best bet for success...and xc as mentioned.

And Meb has run 27:13 on the track, so he is pretty fast, but that's beside the point.

Carney is his last American MALE. The cupboard is bare.

I would tend to agree, though the big $$$ of the marathon may make it difficult to take such a balanced approach. Frankly, I wish all elites would only run one per year. Nonetheless, Ritz should have some "gains" from all his marathon training that can be consolidated and ultimately transfer to faster times on the track. I see this kid as a 13:10, 27:20ish +/- type, who can make somewhat of a splash in cross country and track, all the while searching for that not-so-elusive-anymore 2:07 marathon. He's already there with smarter training and pacing.

Ritz "has that 'speed'" whether or not he has shown it in racing. It's there and racing on the track won't affect that. 10k on the roads (it's 10,000m on the track) would be as good or better for the half-marathon. XC is irrelevant, his best xc racing is in the past and he's proven to wilt at Worlds as a pro. He could still win xc nationals, big deal.

Meb's track PR doesn't make him competitive at the biggest meets and Hall has a much faster marathon PR.

From my limited information, it doesn't seem Hudson is the guy for Ritz.

I think Ritz has lots of talent. He could improve his performances significantly.

The best, but not likely, training solution for Ritz would be to head to Kenya and join one of the elite training groups/camps.

Years ago, Bob Kennedy did something like this. He didn't quite head to Eldoret, but he did train in Europe and elsewhere with some of the best East African and other runners.

In fact, I consider Ryan Hall's performances quite remarkable given that he is not training with the best runners.

we all know this is the obvious answer.

but american runners are big pussies, they afraid of being schooled by African Runners. SO now we have Galen Rupp training in a controlled lab instead of the natural elements.

Your post is wrong on a couple levels.

1. Ritz can not train at altitude. So Eldoret would never work.

2. Ritz's best training was as a high school runner because he ran with a good group that was not as good as him. He tends to push too hard and needs a group to hold him back. He certainly does NOT need to push harder in training. That is what has led to injuries in the past.

He got hurt at Colorado while blasting with the Torres brothers and really came into his own once they graduated and he was the top guy.

I think he should jump in with Hansons and train at a level that would allow him to slow things down and get healthy. He would be back in Michigan where I am sure he is a legend.