Wannamaker Mile Spoiler... I warned you...

My take is the Millrose track is unbelievably hard to run fast on. Lagat's a natural on it, while Mottram's performance tells me he's got some insane fitness right now. When Webb went out in :56, I thought he'd rig. I even called it in the predictions, stating either Mottram or Webb would run 4:00+ trying to run with Lagat. The Millrose track is insane and the only one of it's kind. Anyway, I thought Sara Hall's 9:01 3K on that track was pretty phenomenal.

Going out in 56 / 156 isn't jogging for 348 guy its a poor attempt at race pace. MSG is a slow track and Webb isn't 348 right now. Classic case of going out too fast and rigging. Could have got and $85 ticket for $40 last night, but thought better.

I heart Webb wrote:

Webb must have been tired from three straight weeks of racing, 4:04 is jogging for someone who's run 3:48.

NY runner wrote:

Could have got and $85 ticket for $40 last night, but thought better.

For those who wonder what's wrong with the state of track & field in this country, here's a telling example. How is it that you expect the common folk, who don't directly participate in athletics, to care about some dudes running circles around a track, when this guy, who is a runner, is too chinsy to pay for a ticket?

slowasme wrote:

Webb= overated underpreformer

Mottram= God

God took second place?

Did anyone watch the interviews? Mottram hasn't done any fast stuff yet! All you dumbasses who think he is peaking now are in for a surprise. Running 3:54 to lose to Lagat by a fraction of a second off of purely base work indicates great things to come. Webb, on the other hand, can't win any race with good international guys. I'm beginning to think that Webb should just move up to the 3k-5k now. He has good speed, but he is tactically stupid and can't perform under pressure at all. Does anyone else notice that the USA guys always try to be all Prefontaine-esque, and push the pace only to get destroyed at the end?? Why do they have to be so damn stupid? Can't they just give up on heroics, and run more realistically rather than get repeatedly embarrassed at the world level? The only kenyans you see out front are the pacemakers, and guys who are sacrificing their race to help their better teammates. Pre was an awesome guy and a legend, but I think it was a mistake to publicize his tactics because nowadays you have top-class USA guys running to win in races where winning is utterly impossible. Sorry for ranting, I'm just ashamed to see this kind of stupidity coming from guys who should know better.

I think there are 3 type of athlete's

1. People who just need to set records and run fast times.

2. People that need to win and forget the times.

3. The special athletes that have the gift of doing both.

I think Webb fulls into the first group at the moment, he does win races when not pressed by the depth of competition.

Mottram I would say fulls in the second group, the guy just needs to win, he has run fast times but these times have always happened when he is trying to win. His 2 5km best times you couldn't tell us he wasn't trying to win against Geb & Bekele. His 3km Road best was set trying to win, his 3km track best was set winning the race. When Mottram has stated he want to run fast and shift his focus from winning in the past he has finished along way of the places in slower time. Maybe Mottram may not run as fast as a lot of other athletes in paced events tha are looking at running world records, but at big events he would probably be one of the best racers going around.

Group 3 is reserved for the big men, Geb, Bekele etc. Hate to lose and have the talent to chase history and run times people dream about.

No reason why Webb can't run both the 1500 and 5000 ala El Guerrouj. I'd like to see Webb get Scott's decades-old mile record, and if he can do that, then he will likely have the level of fitness to chase after Kennedy's 5000 record. However, I agree with you that he doesn't seem like the type of runner who will medal in championship-type races, and, as such, he should focus on the longer event for the Olympics.

"Wanamaker"

Has Webb ever even tried this shocking, novel strategy: sit in on the pace, then kick with 400-300 to go? Everyone is so convinced he has no kick, but has he ever been patient enough to try it in big race? He needs to watch some old Snell, Ryun, Cram videos. Run the 56 on the OTHER end of the race!

i agree

webb's tactice reminds me of the pathetic move by kennedy in the 5000m final in atl.

i mean wtf did webb and kennedy try to prove?

what a f u c k i n g joke our track runner habe become

running scared that's what you'd call it

can't race a damn when it comes to int'l competetion

and please spare me the crap about how webb is tired or the track doesn't suit him.. you bunch of ball suckers

"Lagat is American"

I can't this. I hate when all these foreign athletes sail over here on a raft and then claim that they're "American" ... pisses me off!

Webb is the fastest TRUE AMERICAN right now.

make that lukezic for "right now"

i give up.. wrote:

i agree

webb's tactice reminds me of the pathetic move by kennedy in the 5000m final in atl.

i mean wtf did webb and kennedy try to prove?

what a f u c k i n g joke our track runner habe become

running scared that's what you'd call it

can't race a damn when it comes to int'l competetion

and please spare me the crap about how webb is tired or the track doesn't suit him.. you bunch of ball suckers

You should give up, because you're really, really dumb. I just provided an endless list of Webb racing very well against international competition on the thread entitled "What actually happened to Webb?". You can't miss the examples, because they go on for a very long ways. Take some advice: stop being a dumbass.

jscott wrote:

Let's not forget that Mottram is peaking now, as it is summer in Australia; and Webb's ultimate success is NOT in the mile. Remember, he's run a friggin 27:40 10k +/- for cryin out loud.

No he's not. Mottram's based in London, and doesn't really focus on the Aussie summer.

Haven't even read any more of the thread. Others have probably pointed this out already, but who cares? Stop making excuses.

3:54? I remember watching Coghlan, Scott etc. run faster than that over 20 years on worse tracks in LA and SD.

Joe Willie wrote:

Lagat is an African, with American citizenship.

If the Chinese are playing hard ball with the drug issue, Lagat takes a fall (injury) and doesn't make the US team....if the Chinese go soft on drugs, and they might (so as to showcase their fabulous cheating female distance runners) Lagat goes and medals vs. some doped up Moroccan....

Barry Bonds is a huge fan of track and field, did you know that?

Well... it's more up to the governing bodies to quit giving passes to certain folks for political reasons. We all know Bernie was popped and it was politics that got him back on the track, but I don't think it will truly be up to the Chinese to do the policing.

Symmonds would have won easily.

You "Webby's" and stupid ass Alan Webb fans are just setting yourselves up for disappointment and embarrassment. No matter how good of shape he's in, he's always going to f*** up when it counts.

Basically, all Alan Webb is good for is time trials. Line him up against any sort of challenging competition and he's sure to quail under the pressure. He has all the god-given ability in the world, but simply has no balls. His testicles have been removed by means of castration. What a goddamn shame, our most talented guy happens to be a pussy bitch.

Prefontaine had an insecurity complex, as any psychologist would say. Webb is just a cocky ass wannabe f***ing douche who can't live up to shit. Wait for the world championships... wait for the olympics... I don't care; any big competition and all you Webb lovers will be sadly disappointed and silenced. We need more guys like Mottram in the US. Less pussy christian religious doughnut-eating f******, and more guys with the will and the discipline to do what it takes to win a race. Holy shit is that too much to ask? We need more guys like Pre and Gerry Lindgren and Salazar with psychological problems. Guys who are just straight-up crazy and will run themselves to death if they have to.

It was simply the wrong track for Webb. Webb is a large frame runner who bleeds off a lot of energy in the turns. Lagat is light and can fly around the turns. The one time Webb has beaten Lagat it was on a outdoor track.

If one of Webb's "time trial" consists of running a 3:46 mile than that would not be at all bad.

This has been the curse of American Milers ever since American Milers started performing on the international level. When it comes to crunch time, shit hits the fan.

In general, the mile is THE distance event in the US, subsequently there is always tremendous pressure on US athletes to perform well there. Americans can relate to the mile. Everyone has run the mile in PE in middle school or high school. That will always be the marquee event.

I think Holman felt this pressure and he buckled, Falcon buckled, Scott buckled, Ryun tripped and buckled.

It may just require a care-free attitude of someone like Nick Symmonds to take over the ranks. It's like the great Red Sox curse (before they won the World Series)...anything that can go wrong will go wrong.

Webb was just trying to give us a show and give us what we want, that is a win against the best. I applaud him for trying.