Certainly Bekele is the better runner overall, but is he better over 3000? In the 10,000 it's not close, in the 5 Bekele is clearly superior although under certain circumstances I could see Mottram pulling an upset. I'd have to say over the mile, Mottram is better. For 3000, I'd say they're probably not too far apart.
Bekele is inexperienced over 3 km with a personal best of "only" 7'30"
Did this meet test the competitors for drugs like the Tour de France does or was it an all druggie invite (Bekele etc)
Marius wrote:
A few thoughts about Mottram:
He is by far the most talented athlete I have trainined with (having spent 6 winters in Kenya). Just an incredible range in both speed + endurance - almost all through the types of sessions (incl strength work,coordination) and distances. Never seen it in a 5k runner before. Very, very gifted ,...........
Talented ? Gifted?? C'mon Marius, don't spoil the myth. Many letsrunners on here want to believe that Mottram is as insanely good as he is because he "believes in himself" and "gets it" (whatever the hell that means). Or because he runs his recovery days easy.
Mottram is a one in a billion talent. Outside of East Africa, he is a one in a trillion. He "believes in himself" because HE IS UNFRIGGIN-BELIEVABLY GOOD. I'd have boatloads of confidence too if I was that talented.
Everyone on letsrun thinks that Bob Kennedy was 100% clean, but many of them thinks Mottram is a druggie, doens't make any sense at all. A 3.56 miler who runs 7.30 is considered clean, but a 3.48 miler that runs 7.32 is dirty as a dog???
Very strange considering that the biggest drug cheaters on this planet are the americans. The IAAF statistics tells it all: after the year 2000 the most doping convicts in athletics are americans.
Sir Lance-alot wrote:
Marius wrote:A few thoughts about Mottram:
He is by far the most talented athlete I have trainined with (having spent 6 winters in Kenya). Just an incredible range in both speed + endurance - almost all through the types of sessions (incl strength work,coordination) and distances. Never seen it in a 5k runner before. Very, very gifted ,...........
Talented ? Gifted?? C'mon Marius, don't spoil the myth. Many letsrunners on here want to believe that Mottram is as insanely good as he is because he "believes in himself" and "gets it" (whatever the hell that means). Or because he runs his recovery days easy.
Mottram is a one in a billion talent. Outside of East Africa, he is a one in a trillion. He "believes in himself" because HE IS UNFRIGGIN-BELIEVABLY GOOD. I'd have boatloads of confidence too if I was that talented.
There you go again, spouting your ignorance that you are convinced is insight and knowledge.
Why do you have to exaggerate so much? Mottram is not a one in a Billion talent, that is completely ridiculous.
You simply don't understand what running talent is, because you are a hero worshipper, who puts people on a pedestal.
Physical talent is extremely common. Mental talent less so, but it is not rare. Fitness and confidence need to be built slowly.
If you saw the workouts I have been doing lately, and I explained to you how I arrived at this level of fitness, you would have to agree with my viewpoint, and re-evaluate your own opinions.
any better pics of the mullet?
i dont know but wrote:
What kind of weapon did he use?
Haven't you read the thread?????
He attacked him from behind with his mullett.
no secret wrote:
Sir Lance-alot wrote-
"Mottram is a one in a billion talent. Outside of East Africa, he is a one in a trillion. He "believes in himself" because HE IS UNFRIGGIN-BELIEVABLY GOOD. I'd have boatloads of confidence too if I was that talented."
There you go again, spouting your ignorance that you are convinced is insight and knowledge.
Why do you have to exaggerate so much? Mottram is not a one in a Billion talent, that is completely ridiculous.
You simply don't understand what running talent is, because you are a hero worshipper, who puts people on a pedestal.
Physical talent is extremely common. Mental talent less so, but it is not rare. Fitness and confidence need to be built slowly.
If you saw the workouts I have been doing lately, and I explained to you how I arrived at this level of fitness, you would have to agree with my viewpoint, and re-evaluate your own opinions.
No I wouldn't. And I have no idea what you are talking about since you are being vague and ambiguous. And Mottram IS a one in a billion talent, no matter what you say. How many people on the planet? How many are better miler/5k runners than he, that are also brilliant triathletes? Few or none. Do the math and tell me I am wrong about my "one in a billion." And YOUR comment that "phsyical talent is extremely common" (on the level that Mottram has) is the absurd comment, not mine. And Marius has trained with some of greatest runners on the planet, and he has already stated that Mottram is "BY FAR the most talented runner" he has trained with. Tell Marius he doesn't know what he is talking about. I'll be waiting for a laugh when I here you say THAT to him!
And you have zero proof that Mottram has some special "mental talent" or special training methods, or super-unheard-of pain threshhold. So.......clearly he is off the charts talented, who also works hard and has confidence. But keep believing in your myths of the working class hero of normal talent who beats the best runner who ever lived (Bekele) because he has confidence. And say hi to the Tooth Fairy for me while you're at it.
if he is a one in a billion talen then you are saying that only 6 people have run 732. your wrong and stupid. there are way more than 6 people who hav erun that fast and there are surely more who could have, BUT DONT RUN. wow your an idiot.
I got a mullet today.
Mottram does put on the Pre-act when asked about his ability. "Aw Shucks, I have no talent." But guys like that are gifted in ways that can't be measured with a simple test. Mottram is well above average in all aspects that make up a successful runner. He really has no weaknesses.
Iance armstrong wrote:
if he is a one in a billion talen then you are saying that only 6 people have run 732. your wrong and stupid. there are way more than 6 people who hav erun that fast and there are surely more who could have, BUT DONT RUN. wow your an idiot.
Ha ha.....*I* am the idiot?? do you really think Mottram's 7:32 is the height of his ability? How many runners in history have run a 3:48 or better mile and 12:55 or better 5k ?? Maybe 2 (saidi-saif and El G), or 3 (if you include Geb) ?? And I sitll don't think Mottram has run as fast as he is capable of. yes his 5k best times were run on the heels of geb and bekele, but he they were semi-tactical with really fast last laps. So I think in a race where several guys went around 12:50, he could be pulled to that (12:50), and he has only run a few really top quality miles/1500. He might be capable of 3:46 in the mile.
So 3:46.x/47 and 12:50 (which I would say he is capable of) would make him as fast in that double as any man in history who's name isn't Daniel Komen. Yes, one a billion, at least. (and don't forget that was a champion triathlete too, making his all around endurance ability as great as just about any man in history. TALENT, TALENT, TALENT).
3:46??? 12:50???
First off his mile PR is barely under 3:49 (3:48.98) and his 1500 PR of 3:33.97 is no better than a 3:50.8 converted mile. His 12:55 and 12:56 were non-traffic one on one perfect time trials. I even remember it being said that Bekele was instructed to help Mottram get a fast time.
Mottram is fast but not as great as you made him out to be.
Sir Lance-alot wrote:
no secret wrote:Sir Lance-alot wrote-
"Mottram is a one in a billion talent. Outside of East Africa, he is a one in a trillion. He "believes in himself" because HE IS UNFRIGGIN-BELIEVABLY GOOD. I'd have boatloads of confidence too if I was that talented."
There you go again, spouting your ignorance that you are convinced is insight and knowledge.
Why do you have to exaggerate so much? Mottram is not a one in a Billion talent, that is completely ridiculous.
You simply don't understand what running talent is, because you are a hero worshipper, who puts people on a pedestal.
Physical talent is extremely common. Mental talent less so, but it is not rare. Fitness and confidence need to be built slowly.
If you saw the workouts I have been doing lately, and I explained to you how I arrived at this level of fitness, you would have to agree with my viewpoint, and re-evaluate your own opinions.
No I wouldn't. And I have no idea what you are talking about since you are being vague and ambiguous. And Mottram IS a one in a billion talent, no matter what you say. How many people on the planet? How many are better miler/5k runners than he, that are also brilliant triathletes? Few or none. Do the math and tell me I am wrong about my "one in a billion." And YOUR comment that "phsyical talent is extremely common" (on the level that Mottram has) is the absurd comment, not mine. And Marius has trained with some of greatest runners on the planet, and he has already stated that Mottram is "BY FAR the most talented runner" he has trained with. Tell Marius he doesn't know what he is talking about. I'll be waiting for a laugh when I here you say THAT to him!
And you have zero proof that Mottram has some special "mental talent" or special training methods, or super-unheard-of pain threshhold. So.......clearly he is off the charts talented, who also works hard and has confidence. But keep believing in your myths of the working class hero of normal talent who beats the best runner who ever lived (Bekele) because he has confidence. And say hi to the Tooth Fairy for me while you're at it.
I am simply saying that more non African runners need to train properly as Mottram does.
Your comment about super-unheard of pain threshold, shows have far your thinking has gone in the wrong direction.
Mottram doesn't train that way and neither do I. Why don't you take your own advice, and go back and read Lydiard.
As for Marius, he over anylyzes everything, just like you do.
As I said before, you are a hero worshipper, and that is not a practical state of mind with with to asess talent or understand good racing and training techniques and practices.
train properly=dope properly
So you know more about world class running than a 13,06 guy who has trained with some of the very best. You are an absolute idiot!
If people want to talk about Mottram's training and what makes him special then seeing what his coach has to say may be a good start.
Interesting discussion on Marius' website about the difference between his training and that of Mottram;
http://www.mariusbakken.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123&sid=6c33920e383d21ef9a8ad28ba0af57df