To me, it looked like AROP could’ve run a lot faster in closing and he had that smile on his face the whole way. He wasn’t desperate to make a statement. For someone who’s “Just running laps for Fun” - the paycheck is pretty big for second place.
Forget the fact that he has enormous potential to improve. The scary part is, I think he can squeeze a significant amount more out of even his current fitness.
First of all, he ran a lot of extra distance being in lane two for so much of the race.
Secondly, his 1500m capabilities mean he should be running his races like a true 400/800 runner. He almost even-split this race. He was racing like a Nick Symmonds and he needs to be racing like Rudisha.
I don’t particularly blame him, I don’t think he assumed he would run so fast, and I don’t think he assumed that he was faster than the entire DL field. Going out mid-pack is a reasonable strategy for a 17 year old.
But he needs to stop being reasonable. Forget his age, he’s clearly one of, if not THE best 800 runner in the world, and as a speed based guy, he needs to be in 1st through 400, not 7th or whatever it was.
I just looked up Marco Arops 1500m time, he’s ran 3:35. No way should cooper have been behind him through 400.
We should see some massive improvement from Cooper just from him racing how he should be. Add on an actual increase in fitness and it’s all over.
I'm not so sure about this theory of a speed based 800 runner having a massive positive split. They don't have the endurance to finish off a fast pace. Better to keep 2 sec off the first lap, have even mores peed reserve, and be able to finish.
So technically, wehn I called him the greatest teen phenom, I should ave written 17 yr old. Ryun was setting WRs as a senior. So maybe I should have added greatest US HS teen phenom or 17 year old phenom to ignore the likes of Amos.
I thought Kitum was 17. Bronze 2012 Olympics
1:42.53
No one really believes that. His incrediblly fast drop-off and disappearance adds to the strnge tale.
he ran this race in lane 2, another poster said he ran an extra 6 meters. he pushed himself to the limit yesterday and was still breathing incredibly hard. This shows that he is not FIT yet. He has another 1-2 seconds from gaining fitness through the rest of the season.
put this together, he runs 139.9 this year if he decides to go for it in a favored affair, lane 1, no fighting other runners, perfect conditioning and weather.
Others have already addressed this one. On paper, the best version of Hoey is a monster. Whether he can put that together in an outdoor race remains to be seen. So, I wrote "maybe."
As for Coop needing to go out faster because he's a 400/800 type, which was mentioned elsewhere, I think that's probably true. But realistically, he's a 17 year old trying to win races against the best adults in the world, and he has figured out a formula for doing that -- trail by about 1 second in the first lap, assuming that it's a fast pace, and then reel them in. It's pretty natural that he would continue with that tactic, since it's working. He has time later in his career to experiment with fast starts and run for time.
To put the matter another way, in his freshman year of HS he consistently came from behind. By soph year, when he knew that he was going to win, he started to take the lead earlier. I imagine that will happen in the pros too.
Oh, and I'm waiting for Coop to run a 400. Am more interested in seeing that than his 1500, which I was pretty sure would be meh. But I think he might be reasonably competitive in a 400.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
Some people were getting worked up over a HS junior running a 4:03 mile equivalent and lamenting it was a bad sign.
The kid ran the fastest 400m in the country among all HS sophomores last year, he is a 400/800 guy who is relatively better at the 800. Let’s not ask him to move up to the 1500, other than as an occasional off-distance race.
This post was edited 50 seconds after it was posted.
Some people were getting worked up over a HS junior running a 4:03 mile equivalent and lamenting it was a bad sign.
The kid ran the fastest 400m in the country among all HS sophomores last year, he is a 400/800 guy who is relatively better at the 800. Let’s not ask him to move up to the 1500, other than as an occasional off-distance race.
how does a high school athlete of Lutkenhaus caliber determine if he is a 400m, 800m, or 1500 meter runner, as his best event?
He ran more distance than anyone else in that race (806.4m) so he basically ran 1:41.8 pace. He also went through in 50.9 and came back in 51.8 so damn near even splits. He's well into 1:41 shape right now.
Will he be credited for the record for 806.4m? I was trying to find the "Bring Back the 806.4m" website but they must have taken it down.
Some people were getting worked up over a HS junior running a 4:03 mile equivalent and lamenting it was a bad sign.
The kid ran the fastest 400m in the country among all HS sophomores last year, he is a 400/800 guy who is relatively better at the 800. Let’s not ask him to move up to the 1500, other than as an occasional off-distance race.
Exactly, and he ran it as an open race only once, when his 800 PR was only 1:46. He is likely significantly faster now.
But, CL himself said he wants to run low 3:30s in his career in a post-race interview after that rustbuster 1500, so he, himself, plans to move up eventually.
Personally, I’d like to see him run another couple 400s. See if he can go 45.3.
so NOT the greatest teen phenom our sport has ever seen. NOT even in the 800m.
Still time though, but try to get oyur facts right and dont get overexcited.
It's worth pointing Amos only broke 1:43 in one race as a teenager. So, the case for him would have to be made on that single race. Yes it was in the largest possible stage, but still ... that's something to consider.
Others have already addressed this one. On paper, the best version of Hoey is a monster. Whether he can put that together in an outdoor race remains to be seen. So, I wrote "maybe."
As for Coop needing to go out faster because he's a 400/800 type, which was mentioned elsewhere, I think that's probably true. But realistically, he's a 17 year old trying to win races against the best adults in the world, and he has figured out a formula for doing that -- trail by about 1 second in the first lap, assuming that it's a fast pace, and then reel them in. It's pretty natural that he would continue with that tactic, since it's working. He has time later in his career to experiment with fast starts and run for time.
To put the matter another way, in his freshman year of HS he consistently came from behind. By soph year, when he knew that he was going to win, he started to take the lead earlier. I imagine that will happen in the pros too.
Oh, and I'm waiting for Coop to run a 400. Am more interested in seeing that than his 1500, which I was pretty sure would be meh. But I think he might be reasonably competitive in a 400.
Coop vs Quincy Wilson in a DL 400… who you got? Quincy seems to have lost a step, or at least plateaued. I think it would be very close.
You look at him in the video after the finish. He's walking around, talking to the other runners, and they're all down on the track, still recovering, trying to catch their breath.
You look at him in the video after the finish. He's walking around, talking to the other runners, and they're all down on the track, still recovering, trying to catch their breath.
Some of that is the boost most runners get from winning a big race.
As for Coop needing to go out faster because he's a 400/800 type, which was mentioned elsewhere, I think that's probably true.
It's not. Are we really going to go backwards and re-repeat this myth of the positive split being physiologically more efficient or some other such pseudo-scientific idea? Beyond bi-carb and some other changes, one of the reasons top coaches of the top runners were giving for the sudden slew of fast 800m times was even splits.
As far as 400/800m types being different than 800/1500m types, look no further than Borzakovski. A 45.x open 400m guy with a modest 1500m best , he was the king of even splits and used to constantly mow down people that went out too fast.
Secondly, his 1500m capabilities mean he should be running his races like a true 400/800 runner. He almost even-split this race. He was racing like a Nick Symmonds and he needs to be racing like Rudisha.
I don’t particularly blame him, I don’t think he assumed he would run so fast, and I don’t think he assumed that he was faster than the entire DL field. Going out mid-pack is a reasonable strategy for a 17 year old.
But he needs to stop being reasonable. Forget his age, he’s clearly one of, if not THE best 800 runner in the world, and as a speed based guy, he needs to be in 1st through 400, not 7th or whatever it was.
I just looked up Marco Arops 1500m time, he’s ran 3:35. No way should cooper have been behind him through 400.
We should see some massive improvement from Cooper just from him racing how he should be. Add on an actual increase in fitness and it’s all over.
No no and definitely no. He ran pretty much perfect splits. Arop pushed too hard early and died.
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