This country was founded by people who weren't born here. People who choose to become citizens of this country are more 'American' than those of us who are born here - they make a choice to be a US citizen, we don't. They embody the 'American' spirit.
Lagat has lived and trained here since the mid '90s and from what i've heard, he loves this country. He's more 'American' than me. i hope he crushes Scott's record. And i hope Meb owns every 5k+ record also. Maybe Abdi can get a few.
Sam wrote:
This country was founded by people who weren't born here. People who choose to become citizens of this country are more 'American' than those of us who are born here - they make a choice to be a US citizen, we don't. They embody the 'American' spirit.
Lagat has lived and trained here since the mid '90s and from what i've heard, he loves this country. He's more 'American' than me. i hope he crushes Scott's record. And i hope Meb owns every 5k+ record also. Maybe Abdi can get a few.
Well, that's certainly silly.
would it also make sense to allow for a foriegn-born US citizen and a US-born citizen footnote with a record. That doesn't seem unfair. It still recognizes each athlete.[/quote]
Man, what a can of worms! Then, would we initiate seperate qualifying standards for NCAAs? Olympic Trials? College entrance exams? Mortgage loans?
I know-- let's have seperate but equal socities!
Runnin the Other Way wrote:
Man, what a can of worms! Then, would we initiate seperate qualifying standards for NCAAs? Olympic Trials? College entrance exams? Mortgage loans?
I know-- let's have seperate but equal socities!
Now that's just stupid.
fmr wrote:
The only criticism I have with it is that a fat beer swilling NASCAR fan has no chance of breaking Steve's record. I'm sure that Steve Scott has no problem with immigrants like Lagat in general but just wants his record to be passed on to someone who had a more shared background with him.
That's the whole point of this.
An example: When you were in high school didn't you aspire to break the school records at YOUR school, as opposed to someone else's school? Didn't you relate to the fast kids you heard about from previous years at your school...kids that grew up in the same area as you?
It's natural to attach yourself to those that had similar experiences and backgrounds as you. That is why as Americans, we get excited about fast Americans; we share the same backgrounds as them. We basically grew up the same way in a similar kind of place. Someone from a foreign country doesn't share our background, so we don't have that same common bond.
This is why we like American Records to be set by Americans that grew up here.
Mtn Dew wrote:
[quote]
Now that's just stupid.
Yes. Detect note of sarcasm, jackass.
You need to be born in the US to become president so at least growing up in the US to have the American record seems reasonable.
MNApologist: in light of your ... um, less than enlightened views upon women in that 'being girled' thread, it might be a little hypocritical to accuse others of bigotry.
In respect to the thread in general, the only hatred and aminosity that is coming across from the posters accusing others of racism ... ironic!
In respect to Steve Scott's comments; it all hinges on what you precieve to be an American in terms of records. I'm Canadian, I was born here (or there for you), so I say that I am Canadian. My parents weren't; they would say that they are Irish/Dutch who live in Canada. In fact, most immigrants who moved here in adulthood would say that they are the nationality of where they grew up. I see Lagat as a Kenyan who made a choice to live in the States. Americans seemed to have stronger nationalist influences put upon them, hence a naturalized American will usually say they are American. But this is just a popularized label ... but it is misleading.
Like it or not, who we are is largely connected to where we grew up. If you were born in Kenya, and grew up in Kenya, then you are Kenya. I have nothing against one immigrating, but you don't lose who you are that easily. You are now a Kenyan who has chose to live in Canada/US; it is the way that it is, and there is nothing wrong being that.
I do think National Records should be reserved for those who really are that nationality though (ie. grew up there)
I agree with Steve Scott. Lagat's kenyan.
Is this really that important? I guess so by the reactions, but most Americans don't give a damn about track and field. It's good that a few people even think this is worth discussing.
It just looks strange to see Lagat's personal record in the 1500 be so much faster than his American record.
The fastest 1500m time ever by an American is Lagat's 3:29.
Lagat's fastest time ever is 3:26.
Lagat ran 3:27 after becoming a U.S. citizen and also won a gold medal for Kenya after becoming a U.S. citizen.
It all seems a bit illogical.
Silver medal.
Steve Scott on his mile record being broken by a non-native born American:
"...... on the other side of the coin, almost all of us came here from somewhere else. My mother's parents came over from Germany, so I'm just a second generation here. That's how this country is set up. Just one of those things that happens."
DOWN WITH ETHNONATIONALISM!
If we restricted immigration or at least controlled some of it and dumped the foolish PC-culture we have developed, and held people accountable to some standards (like the Congress, Senate and POTUS) then things would change.
If the elected officials don't wake up to the fact that >71% of the nation is in an uproard about the border security-illegal immigration issue AND the electorate does not 'toss the bums out' if they don't get with it by November, then America is DOOMED.
Big deal. Steve Scott said what he felt rather than cower like most timid sheeple in the face of the Emperor's new clothes of political correctness. More power to him.
toro wrote:
Lagat ran 3:27 after becoming a U.S. citizen and also won a gold medal for Kenya after becoming a U.S. citizen.
Lagat doesn't seem to be anymore proud of being an American than Maree was. Both men abused citizenship for personal gain. There's nothing noble in that.
It would have been nice if Maree remained a US citizen and Lagat announced that he was a US citizen the day he became one.
Take this case to an extreme: what if Lagat changed his nationality six times and set national records in all six countries. I think most people would agree that that would clearly take away from the meaning of the national record in those nations. Now, what if he did it in only two nations...does that take something away from the meaning of the record in the second nation? To me, it does a little, especially given the background of Lagat (competed in multiple Olympics for Kenya, has Kenyan National Records, already has a faster PR, etc.)
Another interesting perspective:
How would you feel if, say, Josh Mcdougal started running like 26:50 for 10k, had tremendous success running for USA, winning international medals and setting American records, then became a citizen of Botswana in his late 20s and re-wrote their national records. It would be weird, huh?
I gotta agree with Sam up above. Lagat has been living here since the 90's. Remeber the book, "Running with the Buffaloes?" Lagat is one of the main competers against Adam Goucher. And what college was Lagat running for during this time? Washington State University!!!!!! And where did he move after he got his degree? ARIZONA!!!! Lagat may be a new citizen, but he is not new to America! Just let the man run and stop with the b/s.
The good news for Scott is that his record will probably be beaten within a year by someone who was born and raised here. Not just by Lagat.
Then it will be up to Webb to decided if he should wax sorrowful about being measured against naturalized citizens.