Official Minnesota ICE shooting thread

pupilpie wrote:

lets look at this from a slightly different angle. action and reaction.

JR undertakes little action relevant to the shooting - its all reaction.

His only action is walking around the car, calmly gathering evidence on his phone. wife says something slightly rude or offensive at him as he walks around the front of the car, with no idea of what is about to happen. at this point all this stuff about being in front of a car and protocol at traffic stops etc is all nonsense, he is not suspecting anything.

suddenly another ice escalates it to 'stop get out', and RG reverses. JR REACTS to this obvious resisting arrest by drawing his weapon to assist his fellow officer. Absolutely standard procedure.

RG drives at him. He REACTS by firing three shots in very quick succession.

That is basically it. all over in a flash. could he have reacted differently? yes. With hindsight would it be better if he had reacted differently? probably.

but officers dont get the benefit of hindsight. the actions of others mean they have to REACT in a flash. the principle responsibility for this comes from the person precipitating the action.

RG and to an extent the wife, and to an extent all the people supporting illegal obstruction of legitimate police work bear the responsibility. The blood is on your hands, not JRs.

and you love it.

pupilpie wrote:

lets look at this from a slightly different angle. action and reaction.

JR undertakes little action relevant to the shooting - its all reaction.

His only action is walking around the car, calmly gathering evidence on his phone. wife says something slightly rude or offensive at him as he walks around the front of the car, with no idea of what is about to happen. at this point all this stuff about being in front of a car and protocol at traffic stops etc is all nonsense, he is not suspecting anything.

suddenly another ice escalates it to 'stop get out', and RG reverses. JR REACTS to this obvious resisting arrest by drawing his weapon to assist his fellow officer. Absolutely standard procedure.

RG drives at him. He REACTS by firing three shots in very quick succession.

That is basically it. all over in a flash. could he have reacted differently? yes. With hindsight would it be better if he had reacted differently? probably.

but officers dont get the benefit of hindsight. the actions of others mean they have to REACT in a flash. the principle responsibility for this comes from the person precipitating the action.

RG and to an extent the wife, and to an extent all the people supporting illegal obstruction of legitimate police work bear the responsibility. The blood is on your hands, not JRs.

and you love it.

CountChocula wrote:

pupilpie wrote:

lets look at this from a slightly different angle. action and reaction.

JR undertakes little action relevant to the shooting - its all reaction.

His only action is walking around the car, calmly gathering evidence on his phone. wife says something slightly rude or offensive at him as he walks around the front of the car, with no idea of what is about to happen. at this point all this stuff about being in front of a car and protocol at traffic stops etc is all nonsense, he is not suspecting anything.

suddenly another ice escalates it to 'stop get out', and RG reverses. JR REACTS to this obvious resisting arrest by drawing his weapon to assist his fellow officer. Absolutely standard procedure.

RG drives at him. He REACTS by firing three shots in very quick succession.

That is basically it. all over in a flash. could he have reacted differently? yes. With hindsight would it be better if he had reacted differently? probably.

but officers dont get the benefit of hindsight. the actions of others mean they have to REACT in a flash. the principle responsibility for this comes from the person precipitating the action.

RG and to an extent the wife, and to an extent all the people supporting illegal obstruction of legitimate police work bear the responsibility. The blood is on your hands, not JRs.

and you love it.

One of the factors that I feel has gotten little attention is the actions of your "another ice" officer. From the video it appears that his vehicle just arrived on the scene (or at least just approached Good's car) and he immediately gets out, quickly advances towards her car while swearing and yelling at her. He then repeatedly tries to open her car door, presumably to remove her from the car. While I don't personally think JR's reaction was justified, I think the situation was made much worse by the other officer who showed up and escalated everything. I agree that JR was not the officer displaying particularly aggressive intent prior to when Good's car started moving.

pupil3142 wrote:

CountChocula wrote:

One of the factors that I feel has gotten little attention is the actions of your "another ice" officer. From the video it appears that his vehicle just arrived on the scene (or at least just approached Good's car) and he immediately gets out, quickly advances towards her car while swearing and yelling at her. He then repeatedly tries to open her car door, presumably to remove her from the car. While I don't personally think JR's reaction was justified, I think the situation was made much worse by the other officer who showed up and escalated everything. I agree that JR was not the officer displaying particularly aggressive intent prior to when Good's car started moving.

agreed. he is the escalator. and indeed it looks like the other wooly hatted officer is just telling her to move one, when 'another officer' just suddenly slams the afterburners on. this is the reason a weapon was pulled at all. if the other officer had just told her to leave, or chatted with her and then calmly detained her, then JR would never have cleared leather.