test2 wrote:
Jon Orange wrote:Yes oxygen uptake is genetics, I've been saying that all along. That's not the point is it? You're completely missing the point. Everyone is missing the point.
Economy is the point. That's what makes a runner elite.
Jon, you started this thread writing that oxygen usage doesn't matter, it's all about economy and therefore a drug like EPO that enhances oxygen usage but does nothing for economy is worthless. That is such an extreme viewpoint as to be indefensible: you yourself admit that elite runners all have relatively high abilities to use oxygen (VO2max > 70). Having admitted that having a 'big engine' is necessary, the argument that EPO can't work because engine size is irrelevant makes no sense. That's okay though, because it doesn't negate your main point: for accomplished runners high V02max is more or less a given; it is efficiency that distinguishes the best from the rest. And you yourself have ideas about how to train for optimal efficiency. Let's drop this thread and start a new one about that. It's much more interesting and important.
p.s. Here's what I think happened. When you taught yourself physiology, you missed the part where VO2max has some predictive power for performances. That's nothing to be ashamed of. This stuff is complicated and if you aren't studying it in school there's no one to catch your mistakes or bounce ideas off of. Also, a lot of the early papers on VO2max are behind paywalls so you didn't have easy access to them. I had journal access when taught myself this stuff because I was in school studying something else and I missed a lot of stuff too, for example that Daniels' fractional utilization curve you and rekrunner corrected my about. There are doubtless other things I got wrong that haven't come to light yet been caught yet. Anyway, there's no shame in realizing you got something wrong. Let's move on.
No, you're still missing the point. Elites don't have bigger engines. The relative VO2 max figures are what you are fixating on. They are higher than average because
1, they are DISTANCE RUNNERS.
2, they have LOW BODY FAT
3, they are YOUNG
Please try to get things in proper perspective. An older middle distance runner with much higher body fat will have a much lower relative VO2 max, even if he/she has a high absolute figure.
I take your point that a new thread might be better, but you know who will still troll the shite out of that thread too won't he? He's obsessively jealous of just about anyone who starts threads about training.