The arrival of Larry Bird.
The arrival of Larry Bird.
The Lakers needed someone to score, someone to facilitate teammates and someone to rebound and dive on the floor for every loose ball like his existence on the team depended on his willingness to do so. So they got Kareem, Magic and Kurt Rambis.
The Bulls needed someone to score, someone to facilitate teammates and someone to rebound and dive on the floor for every loose ball like his existence on the team depended on his willingness to do so. So they got Jordan, Pippen and Rodman.
The Celtics needed someone to score, someone to facilitate teammates and someone to rebound and dive on the floor for every loose ball like his existence on the team depended on his willingness to do so. So they got Larry Bird.
And THAT is why he is the greatest player I ever saw. There hasn't been another star who was depended on to drop 40 and/ or set teammates up for easy baskets and/ or burn his skin off on the hardwood fighting for every loose ball other than Larry Bird. So much of what he did has yet to be properly captured in an advanced metric, that it's useless to quantify him using stats-----yet he has great stats.
Best player I ever saw. The kids reading this will not understand... and I won't lose any sleep over that.
I can't confidently compare across Eras. However, I do believe that the 1980s were the pinnacle of the NBA. Here is what Larry Bird did during his 1st nine years (before he broke down) spanning 1979-80 through 1987-88:
Beat Magic soundly for ROY.
Finished higher in MVP voting than Magic 8 of those 9 years.
Beat Michael Jordan head to head 20 out of 23 games.
Won 3 MVPs (Moses won 2, Kareem, Magic, Dr. J and MJ all won 1 each)
Finished 1st or 2nd in MVP six straight years (only Bill Russell did that).
Was named 1st Team All-NBA each of his first 9 seasons (only Oscar
Robertson and Bob Pettit did this).
And the marked difference in his teams' winning when he played VS when he did not has been brought up by many here. Archibald, Cowens, Maxwell and Ford were 29-53 without Bird in 1978-79. They were 61-21 with him in 1980-81. Parish, McHale, Johnson and Ainge were 57-25 with him in 1987-1988. They were 22-24 without him in 1988-89. Later, when Bird was a shell of himself physically in 1990-91, Parish, McHale and Reggie Lewis were 29-5 with him to start the year, then 10-12 without him when his back went out. When Bird returned more hobbled than before he left, they still went 17-9 as long as he played. In his final season (1991-92), even though Bird was shot physically, Parish, McHale and Lewis were 20-17 without him VS 31-14 with him. A healthy Bird= tremendous winning improvements for his teams. A beat up Bird still= a marked winning improvement. No Bird= a downward spiral for his teams, despite the Parishes and McHales and Lewises, Archibalds, Cowenses, Maxwells, Johnsons, Ainges, Fords, etc.
Look at these specific examples of the Celtics with Bird VS without. 81-106 without Bird. 195-64 with Bird. That's incredible. That pro-rates to an averaged record of 35-47 without Bird VS 61-21 with him. Parish and McHale were great talents. But what would their legacies be without Bird?
Agree 100% MJ couldn't take Larry bird bird destroyed jordan
Unquestionably the best passing forward of all time....3 time NBA MVp....3time NBA champion... 3point contest winner... Who can ever forget him walking into locker room asking... Which one of you ladies is coming in second?holding his #1 finger up as his last shot(which he needed)swished through the net..... Magics #1.....at a time of the highest level of the NBA he was the biggest star.....ask anyone from the east in that era who the greatest was and to a man with the exception of Isaiah/Barkley (racists) it's bird!... I ask any doubters to watch the Larry vs magic tv special and more recently the 86 Celtics special on csn recently aired and you will be amazed at how frigging good he was..... He is the best ever!
Nope, while he played very good team defense, Bird's lack of athleticism hampered his individual defense. He never made one NBA All-Defensive team. Contrast that to Michael Jordan, who made 9 All-Defensive teams.
Exactly. Bird is absolutely one of the greatest ever, and his biggest impact was shown in the Win/Loss column.
It's debatable whether in his prime he was the best. His prime was right up there with a prime Michael Jordan who everyone always seems to call the greatest ever. They are peers if we are just going by that measure. Although Jordan definitely had better longevity, so career wise I'll give the edge to MJ. But in his prime Bird was definitely on the same level.
There's things that the saber metrics still don't capture. Bird was never a player to be measured by raw stata even though his stats were great. He was much more than his numbers ever suggested. There is something telling about why Jordan's teams didn't suffer more without him like Bird's teams did. Our best and brightest haven't figured out how to quantify that thing that made Bird so indispensable and Jordan less so. To me, if what the team is getting done ceases when a certain player isn't in there, that player is more valuable (and ultimately the better team basketball player) than a player whose absence doesn't result in the same kind of shutdown. Jordan's teams weren't as good without him, but it wasn't even close to the drop off Bird's teams experienced without Larry, no matter who the names of the players were.
Bird was a 2nd team all defensive player a few times. Bobby Jones , Dennis Rodman, and Michael Cooper were in his era.
MJ > Bird. This is not debatable
The correct list is.....
1) MJ
2) Wilt
3) Hakeem
4) Lebron
6) Magic
7) Russell
8) Larry/Shaq
Juno-R-T wrote:
MJ > Bird. This is not debatable
The correct list is.....
1) MJ
2) Wilt
3) Hakeem
4) Lebron
6) Magic
7) Russell
8) Larry/Shaq
Flip the top 2.
!) Wilt and only Wilt
2) MJ
I will argue that Wilt in his late 40's to early 50's could stay play on an NBA team. MJ? Not so much. Have any of you seen Jordan lately? He looks like a fat old man.
Born in the 856 wrote:
Juno-R-T wrote:MJ > Bird. This is not debatable
The correct list is.....
1) MJ
2) Wilt
3) Hakeem
4) Lebron
6) Magic
7) Russell
8) Larry/Shaq
Flip the top 2.
!) Wilt and only Wilt
2) MJ
I will argue that Wilt in his late 40's to early 50's could stay play on an NBA team. MJ? Not so much. Have any of you seen Jordan lately? He looks like a fat old man.
Have you seen Wilt lately? Ick!
Juno-R-T wrote:
MJ > Bird. This is not debatable
The correct list is.....
1) MJ
2) Wilt
3) Hakeem
4) Lebron
6) Magic
7) Russell
8) Larry/Shaq
I'd argue that Wilt and Russell deserve their own list; basketball was a different game in the pre shot clock era.
Discounting those two, I'd put MJ/Hakeem/Magic as the top 3, with Bird a touch behind at 4 (or even with Magic at 3). Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, and (it feels weird to mention this with all the centers) Kobe (+Lebron in a year or two) round out the top 10.
Crap sorry, put Hakeem on the first list instead of Kareem, been watching too many James Harden defensive highlights recently.
there is a 0% chance that Bird was one of the top 10 basketball players of all time. He is barely in the top 50. you are clearly blinded by his whiteness, you probably think steve nash is the 2nd greatest player of all time, and think that dirk is better than wilt chamberlain. take your neo-nazi ratings somewhere else
nah fam wrote:
Juno-R-T wrote:MJ > Bird. This is not debatable
The correct list is.....
1) MJ
2) Wilt
3) Hakeem
4) Lebron
6) Magic
7) Russell
8) Larry/Shaq
I'd argue that Wilt and Russell deserve their own list; basketball was a different game in the pre shot clock era.
Discounting those two, I'd put MJ/Hakeem/Magic as the top 3, with Bird a touch behind at 4 (or even with Magic at 3). Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, and (it feels weird to mention this with all the centers) Kobe (+Lebron in a year or two) round out the top 10.
Kobe?!?
That's hilarious.
5× NBA champion (2000–2002, 2009, 2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009, 2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
18× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2016)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
11× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2013)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000, 2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003, 2004, 2006–2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2001, 2002, 2012)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006, 2007)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (1996)
ok
No respect for Tim Duncan yet his stats are better than Kobe.
Also Tim Duncan was the leader for all his 5 championships.
Kobe on the other hand win 3 championships with Shaq as the leader.
nah fam wrote:
5× NBA champion (2000–2002, 2009, 2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009, 2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
18× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2016)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
11× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2013)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000, 2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003, 2004, 2006–2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2001, 2002, 2012)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006, 2007)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1997)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (1997)
Naismith Prep Player of the Year (1996)
ok
You forgot one:
1x NBA Rapist, Denver (2003)
Was worried wrote:
No respect for Tim Duncan yet his stats are better than Kobe.
Also Tim Duncan was the leader for all his 5 championships.
Kobe on the other hand win 3 championships with Shaq as the leader.
I literally listed Duncan before Kobe in the first post I mentioned Kobe.