is there any recourse or are they screwed?
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BTC maximalist wrote:
Name thing that is an investment and not speculation?
Equities, real estate, all speculation. You are hoping to sell to someone else for more than you paid.
Maybe a government bond? You’re hoping your government or choice is solvent to pay out what it owes you at expiration etc.Equities and real estate not speculation. Equities you can use financial data to forecast the present value of future earnings. You have a true ownership in a business that provides actual goods and services. Real estate you can forecast conservatively rental income based on what a 2 bedroom currently rents for in the area you’re buying, or by what a licensed appraiser determines value based on gross rent multiplier approach, replacement cost approach (how much would it cost to big the land and build the home from scratch given cost of labor and materials), or sales comp approach
government bond you can be 100% certain of the future coupons coming in - that’s true
crypto represents nothing except a block of bullsh8t code anyone can create and duplicate. It’s totally unregulated at the moment as some of our lawmakers either don’t understand it yet and/or are taking tons of money from crypto lobbyist groups, but they’re catching up. SEC knows what’s up but slow to act. With time they seem to be closing in, investigating many shtcoins as securities which would then pave the way for these shtcoins to approach intrinsic value and for criminal charges against many of the idiots pushing the coins with the same tricks in the stock market pre 1930s (eg wash trading, front running, pump n dump, ponzi DeFi BS, you name it it’s all still legal in the crypto world, at least for now…)
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BTC maximalist wrote:
Maybe a government bond? You’re hoping your government or choice is solvent to pay out what it owes you at expiration etc.
I bet my life on US government remaining solvent over Alex the crook at Celsius or one of the other sh*tbaggers. These guys just want to take your Fiat, flee the USA and go buy a yacht and vacation in Ibiza.
there’s a reason for FDIC insured banks and SEC securities laws.“decentralization” is a bunch of bullsht and doesn’t even work. We will always need some form of centralization with financial transactions, some sort of intermediary for an undo button when there is an unauthorized transaction and/or fraud. Utilizing crypto for anything seems to be like Western Union wire transfers once you send it (to the wrong place or wrong amount)the sh*t is gone…forever. “Not your keys not your crypto” “ “don’t bet more than you can afford to lose“ “don’t understand crypto? You’re missing out man! Have fun staying poor…”
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Banks Closed wrote:
BTC maximalist wrote:
Name thing that is an investment and not speculation?
Equities, real estate, all speculation. You are hoping to sell to someone else for more than you paid.
Maybe a government bond? You’re hoping your government or choice is solvent to pay out what it owes you at expiration etc.Equities and real estate not speculation. Equities you can use financial data to forecast the present value of future earnings. You have a true ownership in a business that provides actual goods and services. Real estate you can forecast conservatively rental income based on what a 2 bedroom currently rents for in the area you’re buying, or by what a licensed appraiser determines value based on gross rent multiplier approach, replacement cost approach (how much would it cost to big the land and build the home from scratch given cost of labor and materials), or sales comp approach
government bond you can be 100% certain of the future coupons coming in - that’s true
crypto represents nothing except a block of bullsh8t code anyone can create and duplicate. It’s totally unregulated at the moment as some of our lawmakers either don’t understand it yet and/or are taking tons of money from crypto lobbyist groups, but they’re catching up. SEC knows what’s up but slow to act. With time they seem to be closing in, investigating many shtcoins as securities which would then pave the way for these shtcoins to approach intrinsic value and for criminal charges against many of the idiots pushing the coins with the same tricks in the stock market pre 1930s (eg wash trading, front running, pump n dump, ponzi DeFi BS, you name it it’s all still legal in the crypto world, at least for now…)
Why do monkeys throwing darts perform just as well as professional stock pickers then?
Your fealty to "data" and "forecast" is just as embarrassing of the "number go up" crypto-apes.
Real estate is nice because it's subsidized by the government. But look at places like Japan or other places with a demographic nightmare and you see that housing isn't a sure thing.
Government bond, 100%? No governments have ever defaulted? I wish I were this naive.
Just because crypto is more volatile that other investments does mean it inherently "speculatory" while the others are not. All investment is gambling/speculation, people just draw the line at different levels of risk.
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BTC maximalist wrote:
Just because crypto is more volatile that other investments does mean it inherently "speculatory" while the others are not. All investment is gambling/speculation, people just draw the line at different levels of risk.
It’s not the volatility it’s the utility. what does crypto do? It’s not a currency and it’s not a store of value. The only reason to be excited about crypto is if “number go up”….as soon as “number stops going up” there’s no checkpoints, no financials, nothing solid about it to get excited about. If you forecast the price of one bitcoin to be, for example, 500 K next year what is that based on?
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BTC maximalist wrote:
Why do monkeys throwing darts perform just as well as professional stock pickers then?
agree with you there which is why passive investing works better than active investing &85% of money managers do no better than the S&P500.….but it doesn’t then follow that guessing future value of shtcoins and making bets on them is then the same as stock picking (active investing). at least if a business you buy stock in goes under you’re protected by securities laws against insider trading and scams, and they have to sell plant property and equipment and other assets to creditors so there’s (possibly) something to recoup, whereas with crypto there is nothing, some idiot whale like Alex has taken all the funds that were never there since they were stablecoin the whole time, nothing tangible in thin air …there is nothing left, it’s just like putting your hard earned fiat into a black hole, getting excited about it because you see the value shown in stablecoin going up but when it comes to finally getting the Fiat out, likely never seeing it again
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Banks Closed wrote:
BTC maximalist wrote:
Why do monkeys throwing darts perform just as well as professional stock pickers then?
agree with you there which is why passive investing works better than active investing &85% of money managers do no better than the S&P500.….but it doesn’t then follow that guessing future value of shtcoins and making bets on them is then the same as stock picking (active investing). at least if a business you buy stock in goes under you’re protected by securities laws against insider trading and scams, and they have to sell plant property and equipment and other assets to creditors so there’s (possibly) something to recoup, whereas with crypto there is nothing, some idiot whale like Alex has taken all the funds that were never there since they were stablecoin the whole time, nothing tangible in thin air …there is nothing left, it’s just like putting your hard earned fiat into a black hole, getting excited about it because you see the value shown in stablecoin going up but when it comes to finally getting the Fiat out, likely never seeing it again
Uh yeah… no sh*t. Choosing the lowest risk option for equities is far less risky that betting on an emerging financial technology.
You aren’t really saying much besides: “I think those that buy riskier things are dumber than those (like me) that buy less risky things.”Maybe true maybe not.
Trying to explain a fundamental difference, aside from risk, for the average investor between stocks and crypto is stupid. It’s all risk.
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Banks Closed wrote:
BTC maximalist wrote:
Just because crypto is more volatile that other investments does mean it inherently "speculatory" while the others are not. All investment is gambling/speculation, people just draw the line at different levels of risk.
It’s not the volatility it’s the utility. what does crypto do? It’s not a currency and it’s not a store of value. The only reason to be excited about crypto is if “number go up”….as soon as “number stops going up” there’s no checkpoints, no financials, nothing solid about it to get excited about. If you forecast the price of one bitcoin to be, for example, 500 K next year what is that based on?
The vast majority of stock holders are holding it simply hoping the number goes up. They are not using their shareholder rights to vote or cause change in the corporate government. It’s the same thing as holding crypto and hoping it goes up.
You admitted that stock pickers are useless! Also those “metrics” that go into picking stocks are as valuable as random chance.
Its. Just. Risk. You don’t like highly risky investments, some people do.16 -
How's it all risk? If I go to Vegas and play game it's high stakes. Odds are very much against winning jack but it is fun to the participant I suppose. There is not a relationship between risk/reward when the thing being bet on (eg crypto) is intrinsically worthless. It's almost certain US stock market, in the aggregate, will be higher 10-20 years from now than it is today. But a lottery ticket or a trading price (based in fiat)of a crypto coin not being used for anything, to buy anything, etc? Will we even be talking about them 10 years from now except as beanie baby or tulip mania? I don't know. Ask any financial advisor with a RIA if they've even recommended to clients a fractional percentage of a portfolio go into crypto. The answer is no and for good reason
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Banks Closed wrote:
How's it all risk? If I go to Vegas and play game it's high stakes. Odds are very much against winning jack but it is fun to the participant I suppose. There is not a relationship between risk/reward when the thing being bet on (eg crypto) is intrinsically worthless. It's almost certain US stock market, in the aggregate, will be higher 10-20 years from now than it is today. But a lottery ticket or a trading price (based in fiat)of a crypto coin not being used for anything, to buy anything, etc? Will we even be talking about them 10 years from now except as beanie baby or tulip mania? I don't know. Ask any financial advisor with a RIA if they've even recommended to clients a fractional percentage of a portfolio go into crypto. The answer is no and for good reason
Again you’re just making appeals to risk analysis. “Risky things bad”
We know crypto is risky. We know microcap stocks are risky. There’s nothing unique about cryotherapy aside from it being a risky and volition asset class.
Sure an index fund will be up 2-4X in the next 20 years? BTC is up 20% in the last week. It’s all a game.
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I don’t need an advisor to tell me crypto is risky.
I might need an advisor to help me position the $$$ I’ve earned from being in crypto since 2013.
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Homeless, suicidal, down to last $1,000: Celsius investors beg bankruptcy judge for help
this is why we have regulation
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Does anyone know why they (Hodlnaut) froze withdrawals?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-08/asian-crypto-lender-hodlnaut-halts-withdrawals
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Sorry - maybe this is a better link
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Bitcoin up @ 30% in past 4 weeks.
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Ali Abuliban~(shtcoin loving tiktok influencer) wrote:
carmine9 wrote:
Bitcoin up @ 30% in past 4 weeks.
are you sure?
Yes I am.
https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=E211US978G0&p=bitcoin+price+today
$19,257 on 7/13. $24,109 now. Actually 25%
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