Did #1 times improve by 1-2 minutes with private coach. And #2-20 improve 30 seconds (assuming better than average runner)? facts are in the numbers
i would assume #1 still does some practice with their team.
why are you assuming 2-20 think the top runner is too good to train. again assuming they do some work with team. who cares what parents think? does a good coach play people to make parents happy (or race them)?
A good teammate would want their teammate to run best they can.
and regarding a race. if #1 is way ahead of 2-7 I don’t think a coach is going to say slow down so 2-3 can keep up.
perfect example. My daughter is 7/8 on her team. he doesn’t tell 4/5 to slow down he tell my daughter try to keep up.
You’ve never coached a team or you would understand.
This whole "imagine how much better the team would be" argument completely misses the point. You want to talk about team loyalty and buying in? Look at J Serra. We're not talking about decent runners here - these were the elite of the elite, top youth runners in America. They come into that program, stay loyal, and what happens? They win D4 state titles, sure - but then they crash at NXN and fall way short of their talent in track. You don't see Union Catholic stars plateauing like this. You don't see Niwot athletes with that kind of youth talent stagnating. Those programs develop elite runners who go on to compete at the highest levels. But J Serra? Elite youth talent comes in and goes nowhere. That's what happens when generational athletes sacrifice their individual development for a program that fundamentally can't develop them. Those families stayed loyal, trusted the system, and watched some of the most talented young runners in the country plateau. Programs like Union Catholic, Niwot, and Newbury Park prove it CAN be done right - develop elite talent while keeping everyone together. When you have genuinely good coaching, athletes don't leave. But let's be real: most programs aren't Union Catholic. Most are running everyone at the same pace, not differentiating training, and producing zero college-level runners year after year. When families watch their talented kid stagnate in that environment and seek private coaching, they're not creating drama - they're making a necessary decision. The only people with a problem are coaches who can't accept that their one-size-fits-all approach doesn't work for elite athletes and refuse to adapt.
Why would all the kids on the team be running the same pace together? Kids run how they feel or based on their race results so they’ll be running different paces out on their runs. As long as they get the work done
As for private coaches, I would never allow a private coach to work with any kids on my team. I can’t imagine dealing with that. Years ago I had a runner whose parent was seeking a private coach to get him to the next level. I told him that wasn’t necessary as well as not allowed by me. Fast-forward two years later and the kid was top 5 at NXN in Portland.
I guess if there’s a coach who knows he’s not going to be effective for a truly talented runner, then you acquiesce to a private coach. I always wonder how these kids even find out about private coaches, where to find them?
You are correct. I have never coached a team. However I am a parent whose daughter wanted to attend college and not just a community college. one that would cost many $$. So my daughter got private coaching, her times improved where his scholarship opportunities increased. And over her 4 years in college we will be saving a lot more than what we paid for private coaching. So there are long term economic reason for private coaching as well. Maybe you never had to worry about college expenses.
You are correct. I have never coached a team. However I am a parent whose daughter wanted to attend college and not just a community college. one that would cost many $. So my daughter got private coaching, her times improved where his scholarship opportunities increased. And over her 4 years in college we will be saving a lot more than what we paid for private coaching. So there are long term economic reason for private coaching as well. Maybe you never had to worry about college expenses.
Said like the selfish parent. I get it, I was there once. You can't see beyond your own kid. You can't see that the relationships on the team are important. You can't see that you are undermining the team's coaching staff. You can't see that it's not the team coaches' fault that your kid doesn't work well within the team environment and can work harder without being babysat. You can't see that your little comments about the coaches are doing damage.
You are correct. I have never coached a team. However I am a parent whose daughter wanted to attend college and not just a community college. one that would cost many $. So my daughter got private coaching, her times improved where his scholarship opportunities increased. And over her 4 years in college we will be saving a lot more than what we paid for private coaching. So there are long term economic reason for private coaching as well. Maybe you never had to worry about college expenses.
Said like the selfish parent. I get it, I was there once. You can't see beyond your own kid. You can't see that the relationships on the team are important. You can't see that you are undermining the team's coaching staff. You can't see that it's not the team coaches' fault that your kid doesn't work well within the team environment and can work harder without being babysat. You can't see that your little comments about the coaches are doing damage.
Selfish? You sound selfish to me to put your ego ahead of a kid’s goals and future.
Said like the selfish parent. I get it, I was there once. You can't see beyond your own kid. You can't see that the relationships on the team are important. You can't see that you are undermining the team's coaching staff. You can't see that it's not the team coaches' fault that your kid doesn't work well within the team environment and can work harder without being babysat. You can't see that your little comments about the coaches are doing damage.
Selfish? You sound selfish to me to put your ego ahead of a kid’s goals and future.
You are right, I do place importance of the whole team over one individual.
This whole "imagine how much better the team would be" argument completely misses the point. You want to talk about team loyalty and buying in? Look at J Serra. We're not talking about decent runners here - these were the elite of the elite, top youth runners in America. They come into that program, stay loyal, and what happens? They win D4 state titles, sure - but then they crash at NXN and fall way short of their talent in track. You don't see Union Catholic stars plateauing like this. You don't see Niwot athletes with that kind of youth talent stagnating. Those programs develop elite runners who go on to compete at the highest levels. But J Serra? Elite youth talent comes in and goes nowhere. That's what happens when generational athletes sacrifice their individual development for a program that fundamentally can't develop them. Those families stayed loyal, trusted the system, and watched some of the most talented young runners in the country plateau. Programs like Union Catholic, Niwot, and Newbury Park prove it CAN be done right - develop elite talent while keeping everyone together. When you have genuinely good coaching, athletes don't leave. But let's be real: most programs aren't Union Catholic. Most are running everyone at the same pace, not differentiating training, and producing zero college-level runners year after year. When families watch their talented kid stagnate in that environment and seek private coaching, they're not creating drama - they're making a necessary decision. The only people with a problem are coaches who can't accept that their one-size-fits-all approach doesn't work for elite athletes and refuse to adapt.
A lot of people think 23rd place is crashing at NXN, Danny.
Selfish? You sound selfish to me to put your ego ahead of a kid’s goals and future.
You are right, I do place importance of the whole team over one individual.
Maybe you’re a capable enough coach to get individuals where they want to be and help the team. A very large percentage of high school coaches aren’t and basically drag the entire team down to the lowest common denominator under the guise of making things about the team.
Very few are introspective enough to admit they aren’t capable of supporting high achievers and their egos won’t allow them to let those high achievers get the support they need and want.
You are right, I do place importance of the whole team over one individual.
Maybe you’re a capable enough coach to get individuals where they want to be and help the team. A very large percentage of high school coaches aren’t and basically drag the entire team down to the lowest common denominator under the guise of making things about the team.
Very few are introspective enough to admit they aren’t capable of supporting high achievers and their egos won’t allow them to let those high achievers get the support they need and want.
I guess. Thankfully I haven't let any private coaches into my program recently. I have had that problem in the past and it's very toxic to the team.
I think allowing private coaches in the door it because a bit of a pandora's box because every parent thinks their kid is capable of more than what they are doing. Sometimes the kids and the parents need to look in the mirror and stop blaming the school coach or be realistic in what their kids top end is.
Eastlake High School senior Jaelyn Williams and Christian High School junior Elliana Patterson not only finished third in the two major cross country races nationally on Saturday.
You said your a HS coach and there is more to fast times. About being on team etc. ok I can agree, but the kid who gets the private coach and runs faster than just being on a team can get the scholarship offers. That can make a difference for a kid to attend community college or get a D1 / D2 scholarship
Private coaches aren't taking anyone from JC to D1 scholarship offers level so calm down on that one. You are overinflating yourself again Danny and it shows.
If the kid is good then they will be good. Taking a kid off a top team and private coaching them isn't the answer. Having them work within a system, make friends, be part of the team, while also continuing to improve should be the goal.
Someone other than a Private school coach should probably take up this argument against private coaches. A J Serra coach should be the LAST person to insinuate that anyone else is ruining teams by recruiting talent in their direction. That's exactly what you do for a living, Chase. Super ironic that you're in on this one.
I have no problem what you do, but if you're going to trash the concept of private coaches messing up teams, I gotta keep it real.
You and a team of wealthy JSerra parents ACTIVELY and aggressively attend middle school track meets to recruit athletes away from the teams and schools that they have grown up competing with. Dozens and dozens of teams are missing an athlete that would have helped lead the other athletes to greatness, because they were given a scholarship to attend J Serra high school. Some of them have to live hours away from their families. Do you think this group of outstanding Freshman girls at JSerra weren't wooed and convinced to commute every day to San Juan Capistrano instead of the school down the street where their friends go?
As a parent of a kid who attends a different private school in So Cal, I'm all for doing what's best for your kids. However, J Serra constantly has an amazing group of ASSEMBLED talent, but that talent is not being developed into individual greatness. The athletes come in as dominant runners and plateau, year after year. Nobody coming out of JS has done anything big on an individual level during or after high school, and few are taken seriously by college recruiters.
Meanwhile, a "private coach" who recruits athletes by telling them that their coach is holding them back is also weak. Negative recruiting is stupid. But getting personalized coaching is ALWAYS going to be better than group-coach. But a private coach should show class and not trash an athlete's current programming in order to convince them to start paying the private coach.
Regardless, this fight of "private coach" vs "private school coach" is like watching 2 old people fight. You both have positive and negative effects on kids and teams.
Oh man that's too funny. I'm not Chase, I'm not even in Southern CA. I had to look up the name of the JSerra coach when people starting throwing the name around.
I do however like to fan the flames between Chase and Danny, it's pretty comical really. They are going to have some tension at the meets that's for sure.
I am a coach but thankfully I am not dealing with the recruiting or private coach issues that both of them have. I do have strong opinions on both of those things and that's why I have provided my input.
Oh man that's too funny. I'm not Chase, I'm not even in Southern CA. I had to look up the name of the JSerra coach when people starting throwing the name around.
My BS meter is ringing. You're definitely in So Cal to even admit you know about their war.
If you're not Chase (but you are), the only coach from out of the area who I might believe that you are is Weaver at Buchanan.
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