"People have been threatened at this meet" - Kara Goucher

Sledge wrote:

There's no way that analogy is anywhere close to being true, but props on the use of "correlation coefficient". When someone has doped or is guilty of a doping violation there must be proof of said violation, hence the "smoking gun" speak. If she can't provide substantial proof (hard evidence or corroborated testimony), Salazar will not face any type of ban.

I will gladly change my position if she or anyone else provides ban worthy evidence.

I agree that definitive evidence of a doping violation, or something stronger than what's come to light so far, will have to arise in order for Salazar to experience anything more than a dent in his professional reputation. I don't necessarily think, though, that this will have to take the form of something as dramatic as irrefutable evidence of, say, EPO use. I shouldn't have lumped you in with those who seem to this hat this should or must occur.

My belief is that Goucher and others would never have come forward if this entire controversy was all about easily disposed-of "infractions" involving thyroid meds, inhalers and sketchy Androgel experiments. Were things so benign, the people making allegations would have known in advance that nothing would happen to Salazar, while they themselves would suffer ample ridicule and other unwanted forms of exposure. In short, a losing proposition in the extreme for the accusers. Only if these people were confident in advance that there would be a tangible reward of sorts for stepping up would they have come to this point.

Sledge wrote:

When someone has doped or is guilty of a doping violation there must be proof of said violation

Okay, you have to be a troll. No one is that dumb.

LOL... we can recognize a weak-minded PR shill when they post.

It must suck to Salazar children. Daddy never let you kids grown up. So sad.

KMB wrote:My belief is that Goucher and others would never have come forward if this entire controversy was all about easily disposed-of "infractions" involving thyroid meds, inhalers and sketchy Androgel experiments.

Possibly each figured that someone else among the other 17 would have some sort of smoking gun, so it was made sense for them to 'tag along'.

So far, all 17 (plus a handful of other newbies) are all just 'tag alongs' and supporting players.

Excellent point here. Rupp especially is very defensive. An honest and clean person would laugh off the allegations.

Good to have you back PR drone.

So, you Freud drones were able to find out who the 17 were, and you got hold of all their information. We will expect to see the Freud drones per-prepared character-attacks continue as "someone" else identifies their names.

BTW: The 17 number has grown past 30. Your Freud boss needs to go back to Alberto and ask for more money.

Man Overboard wrote:Possibly each figured that someone else among the other 17 would have some sort of smoking gun, so it was made sense for them to 'tag along'.

So far, all 17 (plus a handful of other newbies) are all just 'tag alongs' and supporting players.

Not trying to start an argument, but an honest question:

Isn't the role of the athletes/coaches to simply provide testimony to USADA and then USADA and Court determine culpability?

It seems many people believe it is KARA's job to prove that Salazar et al are guilty. My take is that she is basically a witness so her only "job" is to provide her account of what happened/she remembers?

Of all the athletes I have encountered in years of volunteering at Hayward, Kara and Adam are by far the most genuine people I've ever met. Their love for the sport, and each other, is wonderful to see. Her interview was sad and touching. She is truly in pain an I have no doubt she is telling the truth.

Perkunas wrote:

It seems many people believe it is KARA's job to prove that Salazar et al are guilty. My take is that she is basically a witness so her only "job" is to provide her account of what happened/she remembers?

A PR drones job is to obfuscate in an attempt to create confusion. This tactic has been proven to work when your are trying to confuse the enough of the mass of mindless-sheep that support politicians, celebrities, and large companies--the types of clients who hire the UK-based Freud firm. But Freud will NOT sway the anti-drug people who are these forums. They know they can't but they will continue to try as long as they can fool Salazar into funding the character-attack adventures.

Man Overboard wrote:

KMB wrote:My belief is that Goucher and others would never have come forward if this entire controversy was all about easily disposed-of "infractions" involving thyroid meds, inhalers and sketchy Androgel experiments.

Possibly each figured that someone else among the other 17 would have some sort of smoking gun, so it was made sense for them to 'tag along'.

So far, all 17 (plus a handful of other newbies) are all just 'tag alongs' and supporting players.

Seems like a risky strategy to me. Doesn't seem to mesh with standard game theory. The calculus would be something like this:

"'I'm an insider, and I see no evidence at all of formal doping, only of stuff that's pushing boundaries. But I think if I approach the press and USADA with my "gray area" accusations, someone who's been in my position, yet has seen real doping, will speak up."

Hahaha "standard game theory". Brilliant!

Kara is lieing wrote:

I thought the interview was really weak. She offered no substance. She looked like she was about to cry the entire time just like when a 3 year old is caught by mommy and about to confess.

Truth is subjective.

Lorenzo the Magnificent wrote:

I'm always a little uneasy when people put a pronoun in front of the word "truth." His truth, my truth, their truth means no truth.

She may be telling the "truth" - I don't doubt that. But her "truths" are really only her suspicions - she's put forth no actual evidence... just her suspicions (i.e., Galen was "tired", Alberto was "mean" to Adam, etc.) Unless she has any actual evidence, she should STFU.

I feel embarrassed for Kara.

Wearing that shirt "runners against dopers". Did she actually accuse NOP

of doping? Or was it a message for Gaitlin.

Complaining that this week has been hard on her. Well that is what you signed yourself up for when you went to BBC. Did she think it would make her life easier no. I hope she realised it was hard on NOP too, they still got the job done.

The problem is if we are to believe Kara that NOP are dopers, she has to come forward and admit she doped too. Let's be honest her best years were in the project and she was one of the favourites. Would she really be missing out on the good stuff?

Gouchers are coming across as sour grapes.

Run007xx wrote:

She may be telling the "truth" - I don't doubt that.

She said that very "soon," she'll have more "specific" things to say. She also "tweeted" this the other day. Do these "count" as "statements" you consider to be true?

Run007xx wrote:

But her "truths" are really only her suspicions - she's put forth no actual evidence... just her suspicions (i.e., Galen was "tired", Alberto was "mean" to Adam, etc.) Unless she has any actual evidence, she should STFU.

Maybe she sees a "difference" between telling "interviewers" and the "shitheads" on "Letsrun" what she "knows" and telling, say, "USADA."

You don't need a smoking gun when Alberto got sloppy and left his shell casings scattered across the past 15 years of NOP.

Stand firm, Kara. You're on the side of truth.

I always read these threads, but I never comment. I feel compelled to now though. I agree with whistleblower101 - I just have to say that this all smacks of a witch hunt to me. Kara Goucher offers zero evidence, and her testimony is very weak. I'm prepared to admit I"m wrong if more evidence comes to light - NOP may be dopers - but I don't see any proof here, and she and her husband come across as sour runners who've had their day, and resent it. They don't offer any evidence of drug use, and nothing has been corroborated or 'seen' ever. I can't understand what the 'story' is. Where is the evidence? No-one has seen any doping directly - it is all just innuendo and 'circumstantial' evidence at best at the moment. BTW, that asthma test (one of Goucher's friends complained about Salazar setting her up with so she could get some asthma drugs) should be taken off the list of 'infractions' - isn't it standard to do some exercise before being tested for exercise-induced asthma? Can someone enlighten me here?

Whistleblower101 wrote:

I feel embarrassed for Kara.

Wearing that shirt "runners against dopers". Did she actually accuse NOP

of doping? Or was it a message for Gaitlin.

Complaining that this week has been hard on her. Well that is what you signed yourself up for when you went to BBC. Did she think it would make her life easier no. I hope she realised it was hard on NOP too, they still got the job done.

The problem is if we are to believe Kara that NOP are dopers, she has to come forward and admit she doped too. Let's be honest her best years were in the project and she was one of the favourites. Would she really be missing out on the good stuff?

Gouchers are coming across as sour grapes.

one thing we know, this whole saga is far from over. Salazar's rebuttal basically gave his critics no other option but to come at him with everything they've got, whether it's personal or professional critiques.

I am fascinated to hear her version of why Adam and Alberto fell out. Alberto basically claimed that Adam was mentally and emotionally unstable.