Lydiard/Wetmore Talk Recap

Bumping for some advise:

I am a 1st timer at the Lydiard program. I started the build-up toward 100 mile weeks with the 34 mile week at the beginning of Nov. and will hit the 100 mile week the week after next. I should also mention that my running had been hit and miss over the last 2 yrs because of various things.

Now, I am planning on a May 1st marathon. If I follow the program fully I would have to start the hill phase the beginning of Feb. That means only a month and a half of 100 mile weeks for the base phase. If you count (and I am hesitent to) the assent phase that is 3 months of aerobic work.

So, with only a month and a half of 100 mile weeks would it be more bennificial to cut the hill phase for this cycle and get an extra month of aerobic work in before starting the anarobic phase in March or should I do the hill phase? Remember, I'm targeting for a May 1 marathon.

Anyway, that question has been bugging me for a while and now seems to be the time to ask it.

Possibly the most impressive thing about Arthur is that he re-married and his new wife is 36, and he is like 80odd.

Isn't Wetmore a kiddly-fiddler too?!?

They have alot in common - not just running....

snell was not the slowest. he ran his last 200m once in 22.1. i would imagine he could run nearly 21 flat fresh. not many guys can do that at all.

Great discussion! I have a few things I've wondered about Lydiards system in the past, perhaps they could be answered here.

1) Why restrict hills to only 6 weeks (besides runs over rolling hills)? I know the workouts would vary throughout the year, but why would you not want to do hill circuits or sprints with full recovery (a la Renato), or long, say mile repeats uphill (or on flats) at say 15k-half marathon pace in base training?

2) It seems that you run at AT pace quite often (what I interpret "comfortably tired to mean), but nothing faster? Why not switch things up and do 20-30 mins at sat 5k pace plus 20 or so seconds a mile in place of one of the longer AT runs in a week? Just add to the cool down to make up for the shorter distance.

3) All running on roads? I agree about doing key workouts on a flat road, but I would think that doing other runs on grass or trails would be beneficial in that it will strehgthen certain supporting muscles not really utilized in stable footed running.

A story from Peter Snell:

One year he had a mile race scheduled a couple of weeks after his base training was done, way too early for a "peak" sort of performance. He did two or three track sessions and then ran that mile in a bit under four minutes. He "should" have been weeks away from being able to run that fast and later that year set his last mile WR when he should not have been that fit that soon. He told me that he came to think that the "conditioning" phase, i.e. the base phase, was the key to everything and that once you've done that it doesn't matter all that much what you do for pace work and you don't need very much of it.

If that's true for a miler, it should be true for a marathoner. I'd say not to shortchange the base phase.

>>>You need to have the aerobic capabilities to use your speed at the end of the race. Snell had the slowest 200m PR out of anyone in his Olympic 800m finals -- and yet he had the most devastating kick...

IMHO 85% correct but you need usuable speed as well hence the need for sustained speed work as well. You have to train the system to accelarate as well. All systems have to be well-developed.

Hmm…….Wetmore’s girlfriend, Heather Burroughs is an assistant coach at CU. I’m sure he led an exhaustive search for the most qualified candidate. I know Heather and she is a very nice person but is it a real shock that the CU athletics continues to get into trouble.

DOES LYDRIADS PERIODIZATION PHASE WORK FOR MARATHONS TOO? I hope someone can help or provide a link. Had lydriad had any success with marathoners.? Thanks.

>>>You need to have the aerobic capabilities to use your speed at the end of the race. Snell had the slowest 200m PR out of anyone in his Olympic 800m finals -- and yet he had the most devastating kick...

In general I agree but you need usuable speed as well hence the need for sustained speed work as well. You have to train the system to accelarate. Comes from well-trained speed-endurance and neuromuscular co-ordination. All systems have to be well-developed. Depends on the age too. While I believe in quality too much anaerobic work does hurt young athletes, so I tend to avoid too much of that.

oops...seems I repeated myself!

If we get 50 people from Dallas/Fort Worth area I'll be surprised. I hope I'm wrong but the last time he came to Fort Worth I think there may have been 10-15 people that showed up. Pathetic.

Lydiard likes blondes it seems.

Lydiard IS advocating training in facing flats???!!!!

I thought that was malarkey. Thanks for the input.

Training in flats would mean you would Have To slow down in the beginning and use minutes instead of miles so your legs, feet, ankles, calves, etc. could adapt.

Did he address the issue of shoes in any detail?

Ho Ho wrote:

Lydiard likes blondes it seems.

I believe his wife is Maori or part-Maori, about as far from a blonde as you can get.

Precisely WHEN did Lydiard get the inspiration (or was convinced) to change his 100-MPW program to 10-hours per week? 1965? 1970? 1975?

I'd be curious to know that.

nope wrote:

Almost every answer he gave was a variation on "you should be able to figure out what works best for you and vary things accordingly." He said that about the efforts, about the number of repeats, about how long to make the long run, the total mileage, etc.

Is this vintage Lydiard? Sounds like one of the other gurus on the message board. "You should be able to figure everything out."

Then if it works they take credit. And when it doesn't, they can say you didn't do it their way.

Personally I find that coaching style to be cocky, self serving, and not helpful in the least.

But if others benefit in some small way by that then more power to them.

why does lydiard not think you should take time off, even the slighest like 5-7 days? i think it refreshes me to an extent.

Snell never ran faster than 48s for 400m -- he told me himself.

Snell was the slowest in his heats; he was running in an era where he was virtually the only endurance, long distance trained 800m runner -- the vast majority were trained as long sprinters.

I'll ask him myself the next time I speak with him.

the game has now changed. you will never see a guy train like a marathoner and win the 800m. there is just too much competition and you have to be incredibly fast to win world championships. it also seems that when speedier guys move up a distance, they perform very well. el g won the olympic 5k training like a miler. you will never see bekele train for the 5k and win the olympic 1500m. competition is just too steep now and the days of a coach taking a bunch of kiwis from the same hood and making them olympic champions is way over.