sub 26 XC 8k

By seasons I meant track seasons, so 2 years.

In HS I ran 780 miles before my senior year and ran low 16's for 3 miles for the third straight cross season. The summer before college I ran only 640 miles, hit mid 27's for 8k before a miserable track season where I only broke 17 in the 5k once (and barely).

After another 625 mile, slightly higher intensity, summer (just under 27 for 8k in cross) I picked up the intensity a lot over the winter and managed a 15:45 5k.

The next summer I picked up mileage and intensity even further running almost 200 more miles at almost a minute faster per mile than the previous summer, and ran 25:30's for 8k. After similar training in the winter I hit 14:50 for 5k and 31 minutes for 10k. I don't advise bumping up both mileage and intensity that much simultaneously, because of the high risks of burning out or getting hurt.

I'm only speaking from personal experience, but long slow miles didn't seem to help me in HS and high intensity training has in college.

Thanks for your helpful response Just Train Hard as well as others. How many strides would you do? 6 with a minute or 2 off in between?

I do 8x100 meters, start at your mile pace then every 20 meters speed up so you finish at your 400 meter pace. take all the time you want to walk back, sprinting is by far the best plyometrics runners can do, it uses all the muscles you run with and build stregnth in the surrounding ones

Thanks! I need to start adding strides in and core! I've been slacking in that department so far this summer. Had another solid run today with a conversational 9 miler at 6:50pace.

Try Hard Go Far wrote:

Thanks! I need to start adding strides in and core! I've been slacking in that department so far this summer. Had another solid run today with a conversational 9 miler at 6:50pace.

Prediction: Your first month of XC will go way better than your last month of XC.

What you have been describing for 4 pages isn't summer base training, but someone who is training for a time trail in September. So you'll do well with that, but I'm pretty sure the end of your season will be a disappointment.

You are also seem to have the mentality of someone who wants to train fast over racing fast. No one cares how well you run on Tuesday afternoon in August or September. Everyone cares how well you run on Saturday morning in October and November.

I'm am training to peak for early october and my very last race will likely be on October 18th. I'm training to be in peak conditioning for a xc 8k from September 28th-October 18th. So yes I realize that if I was training for regionals or nationals that I will probably be peaked before November. So this is by design. I'm trying to walk-on and want to be in tip top shape when I get there and since I don't arrive at my school until right around September 20th, I want to be at my best at that point. It's already August 6th and I have done all of like 5 tempos so far. I'm setting myself up to peak earlier due to these unique circumstances. You claim to have read the first 4 pages of this posting but you seemed to fail to read the first 10 lines of it.

Just from reading the thread you seem to be one of those runners who thinks about every single detail, analyzes every split and worries too much.

Stop worrying, log off letsrun and starting running higher mileage than you think you need too.

Most days run trails and just go by feel. If you run 7:30 pace, you run 7:30 pace...no big deal. Two days a week do tempo runs.

Your mileage is nowhere near what it needs to be.

perhaps you're right about the first part but my mileage is high enough. I'm a mid-distance runner to start with and I'm not going to run stupid high mileage because when I make the team I'll be running 60mpw at 6:20 pace roughly so could you explain to me how it would make sense to run 80+mpw and then go back down to 60mpw in a couple months. Rather than what you're suggesting I'm trying to build into the training that I will doing this upcoming year and being consistent at that and I will stand by the fact that 60mpw at 6:40 is better than running 80-90mpw at 7:15 or even 7:30 pace, there is no quality to that just quantity.

80-90mpw at 7:15 or even 7:30 pace, there is no quality to that just quantity.

Yeah, because hitting higher mileage makes it impossible to do any quality, whatsoever.

Try Hard Go Far wrote:

could you explain to me how it would make sense to run 80+mpw and then go back down to 60mpw in a couple months. Rather than what you're suggesting I'm trying to build into the training that I will doing this upcoming year and being consistent at that

Dude, why are you so set on 60 mpw? I get that some guys can run fast on less mileage, but to make the next jump, you need to run more. I do your 60 mpw paces now and the way I got to running that fast all the time was doing high mileage, i.e. 90 mpw +. I did do a lot of it at 7:15-7:20 but after a while I got used to it and the pace came down. Running 6:20 is 100% easy for me and 7:30 a joke. When I go into my season, I'm going get down to ~75 ish, but that's for a peak - the entire reason you build up a base in the first place, to handle the quality during the season and to not get injured.

Once again, you're focused on how fast you can train. If you want to kill it in the workouts, go for it. On the other hand, if you want to be a better runner, maybe start listening to us old farts who are trying to give you some advice

Umm...because that's what base training is for? You run a lot now, and you taper/sharpen later.

Then why did you ask for advice?

You train to race fast, NOT to train fast.

You're wrong. Ask Lydiard. Ask Cerutty. Ask Bannister. Ask Coe/Cram/Ovett. Ask the Kenyans. Ask the Ethiopians. Ask pretty much anyone except Bernard Lagat (because he's an absolute freak and his training probably doesn't apply to anyone except him).

I'm trying to help you here. I'm trying to give you advice. And for what it's worth, I was a 800/1600 guy in high school. My highest week ever was 40 miles (averaging 35 or less). My first summer of college running was about 55mpw. I also struggled to get under 26:00.

But I wasn't any good until I was regularly training smart with high base mileage (80+ mpw). The volume will pay off later. The speed will come later.

Try Hard Go Far wrote:

I will stand by the fact that 60mpw at 6:40 is better than running 80-90mpw at 7:15 or even 7:30 pace, there is no quality to that just quantity.

You are absolutely wrong.

I ran 7:15-7:30 a lot when running 100 MPW.

One key thing you leave out is that I did two tempo runs a week. A 4 miler averaging 5:20 pace and an 8-10 miler at 5:30 pace.

I went on to run 24:40 and 30:40 for 10k on a hilly XC course that season yet the majority of my running during the summer would be defined as not quality by your definition.

You won't accomplish your goals this season because you don't understand how to train correctly, you are obsessed over details that don't matter and you are unwilling to learn.

NESCACalum wrote:

You train to race fast, NOT to train fast.

End of thread.

Is it okay that I'm doing most of my runs at 6:45-7 pace or should I slow down. I'm not aloud to do any speed work other than strides. I run 70mpw and have prs of 9:41, 4:37, and recently ran 16:26( not my 5k pr). This is a serious question, I want to run great this season.

Your recent PRs don't matter. What matters is what you have done before. You're running 70mpw now. What did you do last summer? If that was also 70mpw, then it should be higher. If last year was less than 70mpw, then you're probably doing fine (we can argue all day about how much to do, but the central argument that most of us can agree on is that you should be doing more this year than last year - with exceptions made for those in "Lindgren territory")

And pace doesn't really matter. The point of summer running is to build a base. In other words: a $hitload of miles that your coach can mold later. If everything feels super easy, you should probably go faster. If everything feels super hard, you should probably go slower.

If you have good days and bad days, you're probably doing it right.

Run a lot.

Run doubles.

Do some strides.

Do some hills.

Do some tempos.

Run a local 5K or 10K if you feel like it.

Eat well.

Sleep well.

If it hurts, ice it.

If it hurts more, cut back.

Try Hard Go Far wrote:

I will stand by the fact that 60mpw at 6:40 is better than running 80-90mpw at 7:15 or even 7:30 pace, there is no quality to that just quantity.

you can't just go around calling things "facts".

i'd bet on my life that i'd do better run 90 mpw at 7:30/mi than i would running 60 at 6:40/mi, presuming that I am doing workouts at the same time.

there are times when i run 6:40 every day, and that's at the start of winter base training when i'm feeling fresh, the weather's good, and my mileage isn't high yet. no workouts at that time. only lasts a month or so though before i start to run 7-7:20 pace with hard workouts

I am doing more than last year's summer and for my winter base I did 50-55mpw. When I got in season I was running between 45-50mpw and for my peak weeks I was doing 40mpw ish. I should also note before last summer I was only doing 40mpw tops, so over the past 14 months I have raised my mileage about 20mpw. So yes even at my perceived low mileage which I'm running right now, it is still more than I have done in the past. And over the last 9 months my training has been going well, my track season was solid and I am feeling more comfortable at the mileage I'm doing. I do have good days where I have a lot of spring in my step and other days when I have dead legs.

I do appreciate the feedback whether or not we agree or disagree on how much mileage to run per week. So those of you that are posting to genuinely help me, I appreciate it. Those of you telling me that I will not reach my goals you are silly and you're just wasting your time typing that.

Thanks for all of the positive responses and advice.

Alberto Salazar says in this that you should not run 1:30 slower per mile compared to your 5k race pace

Had a very productive last couple of days:

Tues: 8miles 6:55 pace

Wed: 14miles 6:52 pace

Thurs: Off

Fri: 4 mile tempo 22:42 through a park and some roads. Moderately difficult course and I felt much stronger and better than I did when I did the last 4 mile tempo in 21:50 (obviously I ran it slower but I put much less effort in since the last time I ran 22:40ish and ran a harder course). Ran it on mostly road with some moderate rolling hills and a mile of it on grass. Going up hill the last mile with the wind against me didn't help and while the temperature was 75ish the sun made it feel slightly uncomfortable for running since I was working out at 3. Legs felt pretty bad since I spent my off day walking around a water park for 8 hours which was fun but very tiring. It worked out though because I had not taken a day off in a while and had run 14 days in a row.

Did another long run yesterday as I didn't want to miss my long run this week and I wanted to get back on schedule despite having done a long run on Wednesday.

14 miles@6:51 pace in 83 degree weather with 74% humidity with a TON of hills (where I live you can't avoid the hills). This made the long run a lot more challenging than it should of been. Looking to do a tempo on Wednesday and I might bump it up to a 5 mile tempo in about 28:20ish I was thinking.

Both Monday and Tuesday this week I did 8 mile recovery runs. Since I don't have a gps I don't know for sure the exact mileage but I ran for 56:00 and 55:30. I would guess the first run was at 7ish pace per mile and the second run at 6:50pace.

Wednesday I decided to do my first track workout of the year of 5x1600 with 2:00 of standing recovery with a goal of 5:20pace for the workout. I ended up not feeling too well before starting the workout and had relatively dead legs but managed to do the 5x1600@5:19 average at the track in my trainers. I definitely could have done another rep or two at that pace.

All in all given how I was feeling and that it was my first workout, I am pretty pleased where I am at. I would guess with proper rest and recovery for an all out 8k race I could go 26:40-26:50 and would also guess that if I did a track 5k race that I could run 15:45-15:50 right now. Does that sound reasonable or in the ballpark of my current fitness?

Also I started doing push-ups and sit-ups last week and I am going to start lifting weights for my upper body and for my core especially 3-4 times a week. Does anyone have any suggestions for a work-out routine or exercises that they have had success with? Thanks in advance for the responses.